 |
| |
|
|
Proteus_MST
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Heresson
Cathars, not catharans, and they were not protestant.
The story about blinding seems an echo of a fameous story about Basilios Bulgaroktonos.
|
Yes, they were not protestants.
Just wanted to give an example of Atrocities of the catholic troops where I don´t find any equal in the atrocities protestants commited.
quote:
And, in general, I was not saying that RCC is without fault. Just protestants also have their sins.
I know, for example, that all catholics were banned from Sweden. What I'd like to know is what happened or was supposed to happen with those who'd like to stay?
And weren't there stakes in Geneva?
And during the Swedish invasion of Poland 1655-60, a third of popuation of the country was slaughtered.
I'm not sure if catholics could be that effective. |
I´ve got to absolutely agree with you that the protestant church (if you can speak of a protestant church, as it has no real central organisation like the catholic church) is by no means without sin.
The 30 year war alone has brought a lot of sins commited in the name of the protestant movement (it doesn´t matter that the catholic troops did the same as you can´t revenge an atrocity with another one)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
 |
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
oh great - lets restart the religious wars of the 16th century |
AH, the Church, rightly, has been reaching out to other faiths since Vatican II and especially since Pope JP II. That is good. I say the next step in this effort has to be a reformation of the Church, just like Luther called for. As part of this, the Church has to seriously address the issues raised by Luther, IMHO, because I for one think he had the better argument.
Many, if not the majority of Catholics in this country see a Church in sore need of reform. It's priesthood is in shambles due to the issue of celibacy. It's heirarcy is in disgrace due to its adamant refusal to do anything serious about its near pandemic sexual mispractices of its priesthood.
The issue of sexual mispractice is global as is the coverup. Priest openly have "wives" throughout the world, and the preditation of young boys and girls is nortorius beyond the borders of the US. Central to all this is the abnormalcy of celibacy, a doctrine forced on the priesthood by the Church, not by God.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Heresson
|
 |
of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
AH, the Church, rightly, has been reaching out to other faiths since Vatican II and especially since Pope JP II. That is good. I say the next step in this effort has to be a reformation of the Church, just like Luther called for. As part of this, the Church has to seriously address the issues raised by Luther, IMHO, because I for one think he had the better argument.
Many, if not the majority of Catholics in this country see a Church in sore need of reform. It's priesthood is in shambles due to the issue of celibacy. It's heirarcy is in disgrace due to its adamant refusal to do anything serious about its near pandemic sexual mispractices of its priesthood.
The issue of sexual mispractice is global as is the coverup. Priest openly have "wives" throughout the world, and the preditation of young boys and girls is nortorius beyond the borders of the US. Central to all this is the abnormalcy of celibacy, a doctrine forced on the priesthood by the Church, not by God. |
So, if the church changes some stuff according to passed Luther's will, should the protestants according to You come back to the Catholic faith and denounce their own centuries of tradition?
You're just being one-sided in catholic/protestant dispute and claim that catholics should become protestants "if they have intellectual decency" or whatever.
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Alright, H. Show me where in the Bible Christ gave the Roman Catholic Church the power to remit time for those already in purgatory. |
The church is not only Bible, but also tradition.
And if I recall, there actually is a part in the Bible that can stand for the church being able to absolute sins.
Whatever You bound on the earth, shall be bound in Heaven etc
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
CyberShy
|
 |
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:32
|
|
1. I'm not catholic, I'm a protestant
2. I think there are no problems with any form of anti-conceptoin. Sex has not been made by God just for creatin babies. It has been made to enjoy, to improve your relation.
3. There is no biblical reason to believe that priests or popes or whomever should not marry.
4. There is no biblical reason to believe that Peter was the first pope nor that after he died a new pope should be established. Jesus said that he would found his chuch on Peter. He didn't say that Peter would be the leader of that church.
After having said that, I do understand the position of the pope and the catholic church on the subject of anti-conception and aids.
Currently there are two ways to fight AIDS:
1. You can have sex with everyone you want as long as you use a rubber / condom
2. Only have sex within mariage with your lawfull partner. Using a condom would make it easier to have sex with someone else who's not your (permanent) partner.
BOTH ways would work if they would be perfectly executed for say 99%.
We know that people cheat, and that (2) is not completely perfect for that reason.
We know that people fail to use condoms all the time as well, for that reason (1) is not completely perfect for that reason as well.
Thus, if you either choose to use (1) or (2) depends on your view on sex. If you think sex should only happen within mariage, you should choise for option (2).
If you think sex can happen wherever whenever with whomever (1) is apparantly your choise to live with.
Take Uganda, years Uganda was the country with the heighest population of AIDS-victims. Since the catholic church is growing strong in this country the number of AIDS-victims is going down very quickly.
The doctrine of the catholic church is actually working!
And ANYONE who's a devote catholic and is committing adultery should be completely insane by thinking: "I should not use a condom since the pope does not want me to"
Someone who's already breaking the doctrine of the pope and the church big time by having sex outside mariage will most likely not bother to break the condom rule as well.
Having said that, I don't see any problems with using condoms. Though, if one wants to control birth I'd suggest rather to use the pill or any better form of anticonception though.
I fullhearthy agree with the catholic church though that sex outside mariage is the reason that AIDS spreads that fast in Africa. Not the doctrine of the church.
Having stand next to my fellow catholics on this debate, I want to ask them, give me some good biblical reasons for:
1. the "Priests shall not marry" doctrine
2. the "pope" is the leader of the church doctrine.
The leader of the church is Jesus Christ, and on earth the Holy Spirit leads us. There's no need for a pope.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
|
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:32
|
|
H., The Church justifies its position by claiming that Christ gave them the power. Luther said that if he were wrong, prove it through the scriptures. Instead, the Church simply ex communicated him.
Now this is an enormous simplification of what happened, but its outline is essentially correct. The Church by its actions showed that it had not sound basis for its position. It's use of raw power lead to the protestant reformation. The Church was wrong.
Cybershy, I had not thought of the condom controversy in the context of AIDS and the spread of Catholicism in Africa. No one in the US observes the Church's teaching on birth control. However, the Africans, newly converted, just may.
If this is true, the Catholic Church is not doing Africa any good to the extent that people avoid using condoms while having extra-marital sex. Both are sins, presumably. It is amazing, then, that the Church has such a ludicrous position on condoms.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
12-04-2005 03:25
, he seems to to be more popular with the non catholics than the catholics.
|