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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by uberloz
This game is old. |
Chess is older, but its still real fun...
quote:
Originally posted by uberloz
Well, I may be nearly a decade late, but I decided to buy a copy of this game from e-bay.
It cost me $8 after shipping and insurance. |
SMAC only I assume. Regardless, you'll get your money's worth out of it! 
quote:
Originally posted by uberloz
So I just want to know if everyone here still thinks the game is fun? |
Its the only computer game I play.
quote:
Originally posted by uberloz
I am not as concerned about graphics as I am about gameplay. I can overlook outdated graphics easily as long as I can have fun. |
Thats good. However, here again, chess doesn't have good graphics either - its all about gameplay, as is SMAC(X)....
Regardless, the Secret Project movies are quite entertaining IMO - I still watch a majority of them even after all these years.
quote:
Originally posted by uberloz
BTW I do play civs 3 now also (I just picked it up about 2 months ago). I guess when it comes to great games I just kinda fell off the turnip truck! |
A lot of the SMAC(X) Community are here because they didn't enjoy Civ 3. I never bothered to buy Civ 3 as from my understanding it would not have been as entertaining as SMAC(X).
Another good SMAC(X) site to check out is CGN - still a lot of PBEM's forming there.....
Anyways, enjoy!
D
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:16
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I have Civ3 but couldn't get into it after several attempts. I still play SMac regularly because it is fun.
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Fosse
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U.S.A.
Mar 2002
time: 23:16
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Still fun, every time I play it. PBEM (which I only got into a few months ago) is unreasonably fun.
Those first few games, when every new tech was a new discovery for me, learning the unit workshop, scrambling to put down a huge Mindworm pop for the first time... man those were heady times.
Enjoy the game!
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Whitering
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It's more fun than most of the games out now. I will play the new Pirate's game at some point, I am still addicted to the original. SMAC is one of those games you can stick back on your shelf, and then feel the need to play again a few months later. It causes periodic disruptions in my life, already over the week it has kept me up way too late at night.
Some people don't dig turn based games though, and some prefer fantasy (Master of Magic, Warlords, Age of Wonder), or history (Civ). I play all of them, but nobody can guarantee that you will have fun playing SMAC, I do though.
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Clear Skies
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looking for a saviour in these dirty streets
Jul 2000
time: 05:16
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I think the depth and complexity of the game is something that keeps me coming back to it...for example, recently I've been coming out of my Demo/Green/Knowledge shell and experimenting with other combinations of social engineering choices. I used to think I was a reasonable SMAC player, but when I posted my OMG Free Market!!11!1 thread I realised that really I wasn't much more than mediocre :/ and needed to learn new strategies to compensate. It's the variety of possible strategies that gets me - something I never felt in CivII. The civilisation you picked back then was immaterial - I played them all the same way, but you can't play Miriam the same way you play Lal, it simply won't work. I've had to change my playing style in response to faction combinations, alliances against me, even varying strategies used against me in my first fumbling MP games - but they all work, for a given value of 'work'. Or possibly of 'teapot'.
As for the depth...well, the quotes, the SP videos, the interludes - the game is so, so rich, so well fleshed-out. It's like being inside an SF novel, almost. I mean, who doesn't shiver at the Dream Twister movie? At the 'I swear, sometimes they're watching me...' quote? CivIII doesn't have the Network Node song, or the 'Get off my land, you Peacekeeping son of a b1tch!' or the quotes from Nietsczhe and Kierkegaard and Plato.
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Whitering
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Right there with you, also, some secret projects, I more anticipate the video than I do the effect on my society. Also took me a while to get just the right volume mix on winamp and the quotes in game so that I could hear them over the music without them being obtrusively loud, but some of them, particularly Yang's are softer in tone, so it's a bit tricky at times.
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uberloz
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I really appreciate everyone taking the time to contribute their good answers to this thread.
I know it was a newbie thread, but it really helps me to know that the smac community still plays and is willing to contribute help to me.
And you are right, Darsnan, chess is older and just as fun as it was on day 1.
And you are right as well, Whitering, nobody can garauntee that any game will be fun for anyone else. It was unfair of me to phrase the question that way. But thank you for telling me it's still fun for you, which is really what I guess I was asking.
Thanks again everyone for your help! Maybe I can play against some of you in e-mail games in a few months if you still play.
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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:16
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Let's put it this way...SMAC isn't for everyone...but I think there are very few games that have as many hard-core dedication as SMAC does...you don't see people making tech trees, websites, faction editors, editing turtorials, graphs, and going on ebay to by a round piece of plastic for most games...yeah, you almost always have some dedicated fans, but this game just, really gets deep...unlike most games, all you really see is one portrait of the faction leaders, yet you feel attached to them personally, you love them, you hate them...
Look, there is a recent thread around here with all the quotes in the game...take the 20 minutes to read...really read them, and think about them...and I can guarentee you, if you take it seriously, those quotes, from a VIDEOGAME, will change how you see the world...
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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Frankychan
The game makes you think |
Amen, Brother!
And from the MP perspective why I'd add to that the idea that the the game, thru its myriad playing styles, makes you continually think, no matter how long you've played it, of how to proceed with your Faction in a game. A recent personal example of this would be where I was attacked by an (in my consideration) Elite SMAC(X) player. I found an avenue in the game that perhaps he hadn't anticipated, and because of this I forced him to retreat under my onslaught. Under normal circumstances my opponents attack should have been carried thru, however because of my kernal of knowledge, why my forces carried the day! Even after playing this game since '98 why I have to say that on your turn, you need to pause, think about what you want to do, ensure it makes sense under the new circumstances you are encountering, and then proceed according to what you now think is best......
D
Last edited by Darsnan on 09-04-2005 at 08:13
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Zoetrope
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Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Sep 1999
time: 05:16
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Nerve gas: one of my favorite weapons against the Progenitors in Alien Crossfire. No unwanted environmental or diplomatic consequence when used against them. Just have to be sure when attacking them that no human ally of theirs is in the target base or stack. 
One of the delights of SMAC/X is that there are so many ways of prosecuting a war - and many methods of keeping (and winning) the peace.
Probe teams are so versatile. Brian Reynolds expanded greatly on the diplomat and spy of Civ2. I like to mod alpha(x).txt to allow even more new kinds of units: one of my favorites is the SAM Probe, which I call the James Bond unit. Yang's or Miriam's aircraft bothering you by overflying your territory continually in large numbers? Buy them! Probe teams plus Morganite finances = major clout!
Many players have favorite factions to hate, but (against the AI) diplomatic cleverness can swing almost anyone your way.
Two dangerous neighbors allied? One of them (say the Gaians) constantly firing missiles at your territory? The other (let's say Miriam) scarily powerful but diverted by a difficult war with another great power (eg Yang)? Drive a diplomatic wedge between the allies! How? Suppose Yang has captured a base from Miriam. Divert troops to take the base. Miriam's impressed with your gallant effort in her defence (and will regard you highly for many turns to come). Immediately offer the base to Deirdre. Miriam still regards it as rightfully her base, but Deirdre refuses to return it. (I imagine Ms Skye saying "It was my birthday present. Gollum!") Sudden end of beautiful friendship. And now Dreary has so much warfare on her plate that she quickly forgets about raining death on your innocent citizens.
Yang being a complete pest? Overrunning your land with his troops all the time? Remember Yang is poor. You should be able to buy a swag of his army. (*) Then turn it on his bases. Capture a few of Yang's bases when he was expecting to crush you, and he'll possibly offer to surrender. Now you have a very useful slave who if properly tended can spontaneously destroy your enemies without blame accruing to you.
(You did remember to store up some cash reserves, didn't you? What, you don't have a highly profitable economy yet? Time to borrow from the other factions! I trust you didn't alienate them all by being undiplomatic.)
Trade: OK, you want to see what it's like to play at the more difficult levels. You expect the AI to be unreasonable. And it is. But surprise, surprise! Treat them right with a few free treats at carefully chosen moments, and they start to like you. Next thing you know, they're trading fairly! Sometimes even generously!
Sometimes you need to make demands of pestilent neighbors, to put them in their place. But only do so if you have prepared the rapid deployment option in advance. As with Yang, most factions will turn nice if you smack them down hard and fast.
No guarantees, though - sometimes they get a stubborn mood and won't respond reasonably until dead. If you could analyse their geopolitical and psychological (overt/diplomatic/covert) history in sufficient detail, you might be able to predict their behavior fairly accurately even when they seem to be being irrational.
This isn't one of those games (e.g. MOO, Civ) where the AI attacks just for the thrill of provoking its own annihilation. If they hate you, then something real (and frequently verifiable) has happened to cause it.
It may be difficult to prove that someone has framed you, but if a faction is probe-happy, you can be confident that they'll be framing as often as they can get away with it, so they must be put down (or won to your cause, if they're worth it).
Early on, the AI players often say that you can't buy their friendship, you have to earn it. They mean it, and you have to keep earning it, but once you prove a reliable (and strong) trading partner and/or military ally (as proven by your actions), they will respect you. If you've recently proven yourself powerful, they will behave very differently than if you're a pushover. If you've either earnt or lost their trust, they will reciprocate in kind. In other words, they do know what's good for them, and usually make sane choices.
Probe teams often flash by like a will-o-the-wisp, and get to your bases (to steal tech, bribe units, attack bases or even buy bases out) quicker than you can anticipate them. So you need to keep forward surveillance at full alert (sensors should cover all your territory, especially at the frontiers, and most especially along the roads).
Keep your forward units double stacked so they can't fraternise with the enemy and take covert payments. Keep fast units ready along the roads and near the borders to swiftly repel invaders, whether they be troops, probe teams, or mindworms.
Generate plenty of probe teams of your own: defence probes (e.g. infantry probes) to protect your bases from subversion, and offensive probes (with high mobility) continually scouting for enemy movements and emergent opportunities.
In wartime, rob the enemy blind! Steal their tech, their energy, units, bases. Sabotage them if necessary, but reserve the more heinous attacks (such as genetic warfare and base obliteration) for the enemies you are unremittingly determined to destroy, because once subjected to atrocity they won't forgive you.
If you want to role-play a complete madman, committing atrocities (machiavellian manipulation! treachery! destroying food supplies! killing collony pods! nerve gas! base obliteration! nerve stapling! genetic warfare!) at every opportunity, firing planet busters at everything that moves or sits still, etc etc etc, then that's one of SMAC's many possibilities. But you must expect to face serious consequences. You might get away with it, or you may be destroyed, or the disasters that ensue may make you wish you had been.
The diplomatic win options make SMAC/X very different from sole victory games. You can share victory points with allies: it's not in your interest or in theirs to be bored silly finding and conquering every last base on the map. Instead, your allies can share the fun with you, either by dividing the chore, or by voting their alliance into shared victory.
Best of all, the AI knows all this, and loves to win, and if that means wearing a silver medal while you wear gold, then your allies will readily play second fiddle rather than be like the losers who didn't foresee your greatness.
I was never prouder (in SMAC) than when the popularly despised Miriam (who was very powerful in her own right) laid aside her own pretensions and voted me in as Supreme Leader over mighty Yang's objections. I'd been nice to everyone, so he was left no choice but to capitulate (even the AI has face). Yes, in SMAC good guys do win.
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uberloz
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Wow, that was a great post zoetrope!
Thanks for the info.
I lost my first game because Lal got voted Supreme Leader!
I didn't even see it coming. Just as I was 'getting my feet under me' as it were, along comes a vote and the next thing I know the entire planet is arrayed against me because I refused to capitulate to their whims!
It turned out that on the largest continent it was just Lal and the Gaiens and after Lal took out the Gaiens fairly early he was left with unlimted space and time to expand and build.
Meanwhile I was sharing the second largest continent with the University who was determined to help planet stifle me long enough for this to take place.
After I had crushed the University into sueing for peace and pretty much dealing with Planets set backs, along comes the vote and bang I'm outgunned and outnumbered and outplayed! Hehehe.
I loved it!
But I am in my second game and I turned off the diplomatic victory and I guess the AI knows that and plays differently because of that. Every faction I have met has simply said something to the effect of 'Nice to see you, I hope you don't take it personally but I'm afraid planet isn't big enough for the both of us!' and bang they are at automatic vendetta.
Is there any hope of trade or other diplomacy with the diplomatic victory turned off? Or should I just expect everyone to go on hating me?
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MRT144
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Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:16
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this one goes to 11
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:16.
Apolyton Time is 00:16. |
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05-04-2005 23:28
). 
. condensors everywhere 
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