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Should the U.S. use the prime directive? (Time out:0 days after 06-04-2005, 02:54)
Yes
No
it needs to use more cowbell and plant more banana trees
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Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 02:54 Visit Dis's homepage!
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The United States needs a prime directive Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

or does it? I say yes. If you don't watch Star Trek, you don't know what this is. Yes, this is another star trek geek thread.

I'll make it a poll.

That means no meddling in the affairs of other countries and propping up dictators who are anti-communist.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 03:03
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Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
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Jun 2001
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 03:04 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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Theyd do exactly what they do in every episode of Star Trek and ignore it if they "need" to.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 03:05
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quote:
That means no meddling in the affairs of other countries and propping up dictators who are anti-communist


STs Prime Directive is stupid... The US' prime directive is more atune to that of the Borg.

Brent is offline Brent
Prince

Dec 2000
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 03:44
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I suppose we shouldn't make contact with primitive cultures either? I think it is okay in diplomacy to do some of the things the Prime Directive forbids. I certainly think it's okay to influence other cultures as long as it's not done covertly. I'm not completely sure whether we ought to do nationbuilding or not.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 03:48
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Yeah, I thoiught that the Prime Directive had more to do with avoiding contamination of less developed peoples. Are you saying that we shouldn't be selling Twinkees in Africa?

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 03:53 Visit Dis's homepage!
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and yes, I just got done watching a ST episode.

In this episode, one planet is supplying the other with a narcotic drug that supposedly alleviates the plague symptoms, when in reality just calms down their withdrawal symptoms. The recieving planet doesn't know it's a narcotic drug. Eventually the Enterprise figures out it's a narcotic drug, but they don't interfere with one planet exploiting the other. (though it all works out in the end, because the receiving planet had no working ships to do the drug shipments presumably forcing them to go cold turkey off the drug).

It doesn't necessarily mean you can't contact primitive cultures (as that's unavoidable in many circumstnaces), it just means you don't interfere with their day to day operations.

Brent is offline Brent
Prince

Dec 2000
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 04:02
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Got spare money?

I guess we should only interfere with nations that have space programs.

Wycoff is offline Wycoff
Chieftain

Feb 2003
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 04:04
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I'd say yes, but I'd use different terminology. I'm all for less involvement in the internal affairs of other states. Unfortunately, this position has been smeared with the label "isolationism," and heaped with scorn from both the left and the neo-con right.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 05:11
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Diss needs a life.

Maquiladora is offline Maquiladora
Emperor

Jun 2001
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 05:14 Visit Maquiladora's homepage!
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Perhaps he needs a prime directive. Have full sex with a woman, at least once a year.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 07:28
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Well, up until the Bush Administration, the Treaty of Westphalia, which had been around since the 30-Years War, meant you couldn't invade another nation because you disagreed with its internal politics. (Well, yeah sure, the U.S. had our Latin America exception, but that doesn't count.) We could go back to that.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 07:37
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quote:
Well, up until the Bush Administration, the Treaty of Westphalia, which had been around since the 30-Years War, meant you couldn't invade another nation because you disagreed with its internal politics.


Yeah, that rule was never broken until the Iraq war...

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 08:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
and yes, I just got done watching a ST episode.

In this episode, one planet is supplying the other with a narcotic drug that supposedly alleviates the plague symptoms, when in reality just calms down their withdrawal symptoms. The recieving planet doesn't know it's a narcotic drug. Eventually the Enterprise figures out it's a narcotic drug, but they don't interfere with one planet exploiting the other. (though it all works out in the end, because the receiving planet had no working ships to do the drug shipments presumably forcing them to go cold turkey off the drug).

It doesn't necessarily mean you can't contact primitive cultures (as that's unavoidable in many circumstnaces), it just means you don't interfere with their day to day operations.

No, the Prime Directive forbids introducing advanced technology to less advanced cultures, because they might not know how to use it as wisely like the Federation.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 09:19
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Bravo, Tass!

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 09:21 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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I never thought I'd say this, but my thoughts exactly, Tassi

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
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We already got the mf'ing prime directive:

I'D HIT IT

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
Well, up until the Bush Administration, the Treaty of Westphalia, which had been around since the 30-Years War, meant you couldn't invade another nation because you disagreed with its internal politics. (Well, yeah sure, the U.S. had our Latin America exception, but that doesn't count.) We could go back to that.


There's also the Geneva Convention.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
Well, up until the Bush Administration, the Treaty of Westphalia, which had been around since the 30-Years War, meant you couldn't invade another nation because you disagreed with its internal politics. (Well, yeah sure, the U.S. had our Latin America exception, but that doesn't count.) We could go back to that.


Um... internal religious politics. European countries sent troops to reinstate monarchs on a number of occasions. And there was that whole Spanish Civil War there.

And, furthermore, the Treaty of Westphalia was a European treaty, divying up Europe, and was so specific that it couldn't lead itself into a worldwide custom.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And, furthermore, the Treaty of Westphalia was a European treaty, divying up Europe, and was so specific that it couldn't lead itself into a worldwide custom.


But it did. It actually provides that each "prince" in Germany has the power to decide the religion for that principality. That concept expanded to mean that each nation had to right to control matters inside its own borders without interference from outside nations.

One of the bad results is that other nations kept their hands off of Hitler when he began persecuting the Jews. "It's purely an internal matter!"

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
But it did. It actually provides that each "prince" in Germany has the power to decide the religion for that principality. That concept expanded to mean that each nation had to right to control matters inside its own borders without interference from outside nations.


*cough* Paris Commune

*cough* Spanish Civil War

Outside of religion, it had no effect. Countries interfered in internal policies of other states all they wished. Instead of risking full out war, they'd usually use more nefarious means, like blockades (which the Brits put on Napoleon's France).

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 12:06
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Comrade Tassadar =
Kuciwalker = 0wned.

quote:
*cough* Paris Commune

*cough* Spanish Civil War

Hey, it's good to know that your best excuse is "if inbred 18th century dictators and Hitler and Stalin have done it, it's ok for us to do it too".

To be a bit more serious, that noble principle was broken all the time before 2003. Let's take Chinese opium war as an example. Chinese try to make some laws for themselves, "I DON'T THINK SO" says UK and beats the crap out of them.

quote:
Countries interfered in internal policies of other states all they wished. Instead of risking full out war, they'd usually use more nefarious means, like blockades

Wait, so deciding about your own country's trade policy is now interfering with other contries internal policies? When we set tariffs, are we interfering? What do you mean with this?

joncha is offline joncha
Emperor
North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 12:24
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This thread screams out for:

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 06-04-2005 12:30 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Diss needs a life.


how about I take yours

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:17
  Old Post 06-04-2005 12:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker


There's also the Geneva Convention.


I prefer the "Lake Geneva Convention". Don't forget to bring your lucky 20-sider!

Pax is offline Pax
Chieftain

Feb 2003
time: 05:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 02:12
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The U.S. and world needs some kind of ****ing directive.
Just like at my job, I always say "It's a rule until it's not convenient for my boss." When need to make some solid goddamn rules on this planet and make every body stick to 'em.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 02:23
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quote:
Comrade Tassadar =
Kuciwalker = 0wned.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 02:34 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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joncha

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 02:37
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Arrrrrrrr, Dread Pirate Weas(t)ley!



Ninja Commando Style!





That just screams out for respect.

Brent is offline Brent
Prince

Dec 2000
time: 21:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 02:43
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Eh, we used to have rules, but they're disappearing. The good ones, anyway.

I am the very model of a modern Klingon general. Oops, wrong movie.

 
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