07-04-2005 09:15									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The chest is a bigger target.

	07-04-2005 14:06									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

OK - what country has five ethnic groups with no group in the majority (versus plurality), four languages, and every adult male between whatever the appropriate ages 19 and I believe up to 50 has a military grade assault weapon in their house. This hot bed of murder, street shootings, and violent crime is - Switzerland (this was to keep an invader from seizing the armories and disarming the reserves).

However, note this - the US, with fewer people having guns in their homes, has a HUGELY greater violent crime rate. Maybe, just maybe, the Swiss are a little bit more mature, as in grown up, as in maybe looking at the consequences of all kinds of interactions, from drug laws to social policy to immigration to education, than the US? That they have less violence and more households with firearms than the US because, gasp, maybe the US is doing a couple of dozen things wrong. If results count, the Swiss are doing MUCH better in dealing with homeland defense, firearms, and crime (and just MAYBE social policy) than the US.

	07-04-2005 14:39									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not all "attackers" have weapons (unless hands count), and they don't always want to kill you.

And it isn't always legal to shoot someone who is attacking you either, they have to reasonably constitute a deadly threat to you. This law (as described here anyway, I haven't read it) simply improves the old law by eliminating a problematic condition.

	07-04-2005 15:30									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

We'll see how effective it may be.

	07-04-2005 16:52									#35
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc OK - what country has five ethnic groups with no group in the majority (versus plurality), four languages, and every adult male between whatever the appropriate ages 19 and I believe up to 50 has a military grade assault weapon in their house. This hot bed of murder, street shootings, and violent crime is - Switzerland (this was to keep an invader from seizing the armories and disarming the reserves). However, note this - the US, with fewer people having guns in their homes, has a HUGELY greater violent crime rate. Maybe, just maybe, the Swiss are a little bit more mature, as in grown up, as in maybe looking at the consequences of all kinds of interactions, from drug laws to social policy to immigration to education, than the US? That they have less violence and more households with firearms than the US because, gasp, maybe the US is doing a couple of dozen things wrong. If results count, the Swiss are doing MUCH better in dealing with homeland defense, firearms, and crime (and just MAYBE social policy) than the US.

According to one recent survey there may be 240 million privately owned guns in the US, nearly one for each person. Can Switzerland match that?
If the gun in the closet is registered to the military, and therefore presumably easily traceable, a person might be reluctant to use it for other than its stated purpose.

	07-04-2005 17:11									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: A lady in the library decided she was afraid of me the other day, because I was standing next to her while I was looking for an encylopedia. She got belligerent and hostile and claimed I looked just like the guy who raped her a few weeks ago. I'm so glad that now she'll be able to shoot me first. It's your fault for looking like a rapist. quote: pootie tang could do it. Pootie don't carry no gun, fool.

his belt is like a gun

	07-04-2005 17:48									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: his belt is like a gun

Better than a gun even, but still not technically a firearm.

	07-04-2005 18:01									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sikander And it isn't always legal to shoot someone who is attacking you either, they have to reasonably constitute a deadly threat to you. This law (as described here anyway, I haven't read it) simply improves the old law by eliminating a problematic condition.

Stop trying to interject reality into a liberal whine.

	07-04-2005 18:27									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: his belt is like a gun Better than a gun even, but still not technically a firearm.

all im saying is pooty tang could use his belt to disarm a suspect while running for cover, not that he would need to

	07-04-2005 18:34									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Agreed, but isn't it a little silly to use Pootie Tang as an example of what the public at large should be able to do? The man is amazing, a higher being. The average man on the street couldn't match Pootie's deeds even if he was arrogant enough to try.

	07-04-2005 20:01									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

These topics always engage my interest I dont know many people in the uk who think owning guns is a good idea.
Still i like the idea of protecting what is rightfully mine from robbers/thieves/scumbags etc.

And someone asked me which americans attend those training camps etc.

Well i thought that as the NRA is quite a big organisation and holds many shoot days for fire-arms training, then maybe this would be a factor.

Also i have seen a 'girls with guns' video

Ok on a serious note - if most people who carry dont have training in firearms, then its no wonder the usa has one of the highest gun death rates in the civilised world.

	08-04-2005 01:43									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It really has nothing to do with guns (though not having them will seriously lower the murder rate).

The U.S. is a culture of violence. The only other culture I can think of just as violent is the arab culture in the middle east. I don't exactly know how this culture came about, but you see it everyday.

	08-04-2005 01:48									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Agreed, but isn't it a little silly to use Pootie Tang as an example of what the public at large should be able to do? The man is amazing, a higher being. The average man on the street couldn't match Pootie's deeds even if he was arrogant enough to try.

i just wanted an excuse to use pootie tang as a reference

	08-04-2005 02:03									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sikander And it isn't always legal to shoot someone who is attacking you either, they have to reasonably constitute a deadly threat to you. This law (as described here anyway, I haven't read it) simply improves the old law by eliminating a problematic condition.

Yeah but do you get to use the US governments standard of what constitutes a threat to you?

	08-04-2005 03:48									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara A lady in the library decided she was afraid of me the other day, because I was standing next to her while I was looking for an encylopedia. She got belligerent and hostile and claimed I looked just like the guy who raped her a few weeks ago. I'm so glad that now she'll be able to shoot me first.

Simple solution, Che: Stop raping people!

As a side note, she'd still go to jail if under the new law if she shot you. For an effective self defense plea, she has to prove that he actions were objectively reasonable and that it was reasonable for her to use lethal force against you. Standing next to her in a library wouldn't count.

	08-04-2005 03:53									#46
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Maybe now OJ can exact revenge on whoever killed his wife!?

	08-04-2005 04:10									#47
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Japher Maybe now OJ can exact revenge on whoever killed his wife!?

suicide is still illegal, however.

	08-04-2005 17:53									#48
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader Yeah but do you get to use the US governments standard of what constitutes a threat to you?

Yes, you are free to shoot abortionists, Arabs and anyone from the International Court as well.

Seriously, the states determine what constitutes self-defense to a huge degree, though the federal courts might intervene if a state did away with the concept entirely.

	08-04-2005 18:41									#49
	Got spare money?

Wait, wait... you mean I can't shoot Arabs and claim self-defense, like the Euros are saying?

What has happened to this country!

	08-04-2005 19:18									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove According to one recent survey there may be 240 million privately owned guns in the US, nearly one for each person. Can Switzerland match that? If the gun in the closet is registered to the military, and therefore presumably easily traceable, a person might be reluctant to use it for other than its stated purpose.

It's a stupid comparison, because many gun owners have multiple guns.