07-04-2005 01:28									#1
	Alien Crossfire Full PM-box? Change here!

Would you consider it a foregone conclusion that anyone who owns and enjoys Alpha Centauri would be remiss in not picking up a copy of Alien Crossfire?

Or is Alpha Centauri alone really as good as it gets?

I only have Alpha Centauri (coming in the mail) and the expansion still goes for a pretty penny. Is that more due to it's rarity, or it's gameplay?

Does anyone here recommend 'not' buying the expansion? If so, why not?

Thanks in advance for any answers, I realize you all must have gone over this sometime during the years of the games release, and I appreciate you revisiting the question.

	07-04-2005 01:50									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

it's due to rarity.

The good thing about the expansion, is you can still play the original game (just use the original exe file).

The expansion doesn't add that much gameplay that I'd recommend spending lots of money for it. But it's still a decent expansion. If you are hardcore SMAC fan (as anyone who's been playing this long is), I'd recommend getting it.

Have you tried searching for the laptop collection? doh!, I just checked that's fairly expensive as well. $41 at Amazon.com. I bought my laptop collection for $20 at Fry's electronics (though in recent months it appears they have decreased the size of their bargain bin section - though the laptop collection I didn't find in the bargain bin, but it wasn't mixed with the regular games either).

Basically the laptop collection is a collection of games. One of which is SMAC and SMAC expansion. The other games aren't too bad either. Though I haven't actually played them. I couldn't get into Sim City 3000 for some reason. Everyone says it's great. Oh well.

I looked at the prices for SMAX on Amazon. About the same prices, if not higher. I'd recommend getting the laptop collection instead (though you won't get the "box" container for SMAC X). But if you don't have the other games in the collection, that might still be a great value at $40. You also won't get the rules, but those can be found online at various websites.

	07-04-2005 02:04									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I got both in the Planetary Pack, so it hasn't been an issue to go for the expansion.

Besides the new SP' s in X there are also completely new factions such as Svensgaard and the nonhumans.

Svensgaard differs because he is a seabased faction with those challenges that gives.

The nonhumans are a little twisty. Playing them is POC - having them as neighbours from the start is a *****, and sitting in the midldle of the shortest path between them is an annoyance - both considers you as a nice stepstone. Otherwise they are just a little thougher to knock out.

Oh, and then there are some bugs that are fixed (and of course some new introduced ).

Usually I play SMAX, but sometimes get nostalgic and start good ole SMAC.

Another good thing about SMAX is that you can play with the old SMAC factions.

	07-04-2005 02:44									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Add, add. The concept is a bit difficult. There are seven new factions to play with, a couple of new techs, new base facilities, new SP's (one of which is majorly overpowered), etc.

So, no, SMAX does not drastically change or improve the original and if you view SMAC as nothing but a "pretty OK game" but nothing more then it really isn't worth buying. On the other hand, if you turn out to adore SMAC and become, like, A Fan you can't really afford to miss SMAX.

	07-04-2005 03:01									#5
	Re: Alien Crossfire Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by uberloz Would you consider it a foregone conclusion that anyone who owns and enjoys Alpha Centauri would be remiss in not picking up a copy of Alien Crossfire?

Depends on the price - I remember back in '03 the price on E-Bay was getting up towards $60 US. Not what you want to pay for a (then) 4 year old game.

quote: Originally posted by uberloz Or is Alpha Centauri alone really as good as it gets?

SMAC is fine by itself. SMAX has more bells and whistles and some new Factions and abilities (like the "Marine Detachment" ability which allows endowed units to capture enemy ships). These allow fo some new strategies, but the underlying game theme is the same.

quote: Originally posted by uberloz I only have Alpha Centauri (coming in the mail) and the expansion still goes for a pretty penny. Is that more due to it's rarity, or it's gameplay?

Its rare, and considering it was just re-released for a short time and was gobbled up, why the price for SMAX is only going to go back up....

PM binTravkin for info on alternative purchase sites fo SMAX. You might be able to find it cheaper than E-Bay and related sites.

quote: Originally posted by uberloz Does anyone here recommend 'not' buying the expansion? If so, why not?

If you like'd SMAC, you'll like SMAX.

quote: Originally posted by uberloz Thanks in advance for any answers, I realize you all must have gone over this sometime during the years of the games release, and I appreciate you revisiting the question.

You can search back thru the years in this same forum for all this info, as well as everything else you ever wanted to ask. FYI.


D

	07-04-2005 04:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, besides new factions and techs, so more specific things...

String disruptors now have an attack of 30...

Originally, with a perimeter defense and a stasis generator, or a 1-12-1 unit, you would have a total defense of 29...+125% from both the perimeter defense and "intrisicate base defenses"...now with the attack of 30, non-infantry units can attack these bases and have equal odds...or near to equal...

Also, land bases on the coast now extend their territory 1 square into nearby ocean...so seabases can't start working squares right by your coast, you have a little buffer zone...

If you like seabases, you'll like SMAX...three new facilities have been added, among others...but these three really help seabases...one adds an additional nutrient to all kelp farms, another an additional mineral to all mining platforms, same for tidal harnesses...

Also, due to the aliens and the new culture they brought, the game now includes specialized armor...there is now 3r armor, instead of just plasma steel, that not only has a defense of 3 but also adds 25% to psi defense...pulse armor does the same thing for defense against units with more than one move...

On the other hand, there are now 6r lasers that have +25% against psi attack...

A really nice facility for next generation cold wars...flechette defense systems...

These have a 50% chance of shooting down planet busters when your obital pods fail...this facility also adds 50% defense against missiles...

A special ability, algorithmic enhancement, allows probe teams to bypass social engineering and the hunter-seeker algorithm...however, they still have a high failure rate...

4 SPS have been added...

Planetary Energy grid gives free energy banks...

Nethack terminus equips all probe teams with the algorithmic enhancement and has other probe benifits...

Manifold Harmonics give added resources to fungus squares, depending on your planet rating...

The Cloudbase Academy, overpowered really, gives free aerospace complexes to all bases...

Really, there are so many new things...but the original SMAC is still good, I still play the University...

Ultimately, it's up to you...lots of new features, but you'll probably have to drop 30 bucks on Ebay...I thought it was worth it, but that's me...

	07-04-2005 06:48									#7
	Suffering from ads?

In the end I only play with four of the new factions. I often include the aliens in my games, and other than that the cyborgs and drones. I do occasionally play as data angels, but they are never ai opponents, I could not think of any way to make them strong enough.

I beefed up the old factions and only revert the one to original that I happen to play, it makes for a better challenge to be sure.

As to the new projects, you could probably do without. I often build the cloudbase academy then destroy it, it really is overpowered.

The new techs are decent I suppose, but really the expansion techs mostly help the gaians, and the expansion cult, as well as the pirates.

I probably wouldn't spend 40 bucks on it if I could go back in time and get my money back. Having said that, there wasn't any buyer's remorse, so it's not a poor choice for a purchase. I just don't feel it quite adds double the fun.

	07-04-2005 19:30									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Get the expansion- it's worth it.

	08-04-2005 00:11									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

For those of you that think the expansion is worth the money, would you recommend playing through the original first?

Or just plug in the expansion and play using it?

	08-04-2005 00:25									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

You wont lose out on anything if you just put the expansion in

	08-04-2005 00:26									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Play through the original a couple of times... The original factions are way more cool and balanced than the expansion ones, and the original story was created using these factions - it is an interesting story.

	08-04-2005 00:53									#12
	Tired of ads?

Well.... the "original" first 7 factions are the better ones (better balanced, more depth and more interesting), but I really wouldn't like to miss the extended Tech-tree which comes with Alien Crossfire.
But the good thing is: you can play Alien Crossfire with just the original 7 factions. It is somekind of "you only win" by using the extension things for me (as you don't lose anything, especially as you still can start the original game anytime). Not to forget the possibility of custom factions...
Clearly for me: Alien Crossfire is the better choice and worth buying.

	08-04-2005 02:14									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have to agree the original factions are better and more balanced, but the added features, as I have mentioned early, I feel make the game a lot better and more balance...with the exception of the cloudbase academy...

	08-04-2005 02:28									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

planetary energy grid seems pretty powerful as well, though not as much as cloudbase.

	08-04-2005 18:32									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The PEGrid, is nowhere near as powerful as say Virtual World or Hunter-Seeker which are both SMAC SPs.

	08-04-2005 20:17									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Commy If you like seabases, you'll like SMAX...three new facilities have been added, among others...but these three really help seabases...one adds an additional nutrient to all kelp farms, another an additional mineral to all mining platforms, same for tidal harnesses...

I really like these facilities as it makes crawling sea square much more worthwhile

I also like algorithmic enhancement so that the HSA doesn't make people invulnerable to probes. I always though it was a too powerful project and that it reduced the fun factor by eliminating a fun part of the game. Having the HSA usually means that you can wage war and not have to spend literally hundreds of minerals on adequate defensive probes PLUS it frees up all your old defensive probes for offensive actions

	08-04-2005 22:18									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Go for the expansion. I had SMAC before I had SMAX and I never play smac anymore.

	09-04-2005 01:19									#18
	Remove this text

I never play SMAC either. Expansion all the way. Though sometimes I will play SMAX with all the original factions. Best of both worlds.

	09-04-2005 01:31									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think playing SMAX with the SMAC factions is the best way to go...

	09-04-2005 01:50									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Commy I think playing SMAX with the SMAC factions is the best way to go...

Personally, I think throwing all the (relatively) pacifist factions together is the best way to go.

Yeah, I'm a horribly unskilled builder with an intense hatred for war because it messes up my production plans.

	09-04-2005 02:08									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by WotanAnubis Personally, I think throwing all the (relatively) pacifist factions together is the best way to go. Yeah, I'm a horribly unskilled builder with an intense hatred for war because it messes up my production plans.

yep, I do that alot. I figured I was the only one. I tend to run out of peaceful factions. I put the Drones in, but they aren't very peaceful. They end up taking over half the world.

	09-04-2005 02:55									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Try picking one of the terriable trio yourself, that removes one agressive AI. Then pick the others to be as pacifist as possible.

But note that your still going to have wars based on agendas.

The SMAC AI is programmed to hate any human daring to pick a non default SC that's different than the agenda.

(e.g. : Whichever govt you pick will make one AI very happy and two AIs mad if all of Lal, Yang, Mirriam are in the game)

Then your economy is similarly going to make up to one ally and up to two AIs mad.

And yet again when you choose your values, that's up to one ally and up to two AIs mad.

Ignoring Future Socitiy simply because of how late that appears. (And in the original, there weren't any factions listing these)

But there's still one more piece of important info that seems to step in around MY 2200. The AI in #1 position is trained to hate the person in #2 weather human or AI and regardless of prefered SC.

The AI in #2 positiion is trained to hate the person in #1 weather human or AI and regardless of perfered SC.

quote: Originally posted by WotanAnubis Personally, I think throwing all the (relatively) pacifist factions together is the best way to go. Yeah, I'm a horribly unskilled builder with an intense hatred for war because it messes up my production plans.

	09-04-2005 03:06									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Try picking one of the terriable trio yourself, that removes one agressive AI. Then pick the others to be as pacifist as possible. But note that your still going to have wars based on agendas. The SMAC AI is programmed to hate any human daring to pick a non default SC that's different than the agenda.

Yeah, I know. But I prefer to postpone all wars for as long as possible.

However, there are only three factions listed as "pacifist": Morganites, Gaians and Cybernetics. That means you're screwed in the Economy department. However, for Politics, you can choose both Data Angels and Peacekeepers, because they both have the Democracy preference and then round the group of with the University for its Knowledge.
And then you just have to pick a faction that isn't Hive or the Believers.

	09-04-2005 06:10									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree with Commy. I have SMAX, but rarely play it, although at one time that's all I did. Most of the time I play SMAC. When I do play SMAX I only use the original factions.

	09-04-2005 06:29									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by fender I have SMAX, but rarely play it, although at one time that's all I did. Most of the time I play SMAC. When I do play SMAX I only use the original factions.

I'm the exact opposite: I play SMAX almost exclusively, and almost always have the Aliens in my SP games - just something about all those extra bells and whistles SMAX brings to the game. Oh yeah, and all that Nerve Gas!

D

	09-04-2005 07:17									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'd agree with the majority here, play SMAC first, then get 'X' if you can so long as you get it for a cheap price (less than 20 should do...but I don't know your home country).

From my experiences, the expansion factions are pretty overpowered...and only Yang or Miriam has a chance of standing toe-to-toe with them.

Again, as said before, the SMAC factions are extremely well put together. The history, ideology, even the faction leaders, are believable. You can just imagine Lal manipulating his way to planet governor....his various quotes in the game are fascinating (I hate his a**)

Basically, I'd say that you're pretty much set with just SMAC...but if you become curious about X, pick it up only if you can find it cheap.

	09-04-2005 12:46									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

not all expansion factions are overpowerd. The data angels are useless. And planet cult isn't much better. The cyborgs aren't so hot in ai hands either.

	09-04-2005 14:55									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

actually I've decided to play a game with all the warmonger factions. This should be different.

I'll play one of the weaker ones.

let me think. who should I go up against?

Hive of course, Believers, Spartans (though the always suck), Aliens, Drones (not warlike in theory, but they always kick major ass in my games). who else am I missing?

	09-04-2005 15:37									#29
	Tired of ads?

Cult?

	09-04-2005 16:05									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by uberloz For those of you that think the expansion is worth the money, would you recommend playing through the original first? Or just plug in the expansion and play using it?

Oh, alternate. It's what I did.


You'll be playing both games long enough not to have to play them in the order they were released anyway.

I suppose if you're new to the game, the Alien factions can seem a little overpowered at first, but given that they can't ally you shouldn't experience too many problems.


And it's just fun reading through the manual, Poly's A.C. section and the game's files anyway, so you're better off diving in headfirst and having fun, no matter how frustrating it might seem at first.