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Should flags be at half staff for the pope's death? (Time out:0 days after 07-04-2005, 05:20)
yes
no
my banana is at half staff
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Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:19 Visit Dis's homepage!
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half staff flags for the pope Got spare money?

There appears to be some controversy over having the flags at half staff in the U.S. (and in France too) for the pope.

We are supposed to have separation of church and state. And you would never see this happen for Jewish or Arabic leaders. What gives? A political ploy?

And France has issues with this as well. They ban headscarves from schools, yet allow this?

your thoughts?

Brent is offline Brent
Prince

Dec 2000
time: 21:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:23
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Isn't the Pope a head of state?

And there is such a thing as the state discriminating against religion, too.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:24 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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It's not government mandated.
Any home owner or business can fly the flag at half staff at the time of any death, be it fido or the janitor.

That said, the poll is worthless.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:30 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
It's not government mandated.
Any home owner or business can fly the flag at half staff at the time of any death, be it fido or the janitor.

That said, the poll is worthless.


It's not? That's what I get for believing the newspaper.

but I did read an article about French leftists complaining about the half staff flags over there.

edit: Imran found the link. He's the man.

Last edited by Dis on 07-04-2005 at 05:59

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:35
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Actually Bush mandated that flags on public buildings be half staff:

http://www.catholic.org/cathcom/nat...ry.php?id=13595

Admiral is offline Admiral
Warlord
of the peace and coexistance movement
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:51
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Regardless of the religion, it is a gesture of respect for an extremely moral (even if the morals didn't agree with some on the left)/important man. I would hope that the same would be done for the Dalai Lama (though, to be fair, the Dalai Lama has much less global influence than the Pope).

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
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Apr 2004
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 05:55
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Dalai Lama The pope only beats him on cool hats. The pope just has so many...

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 06:04
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Well, seeing as Pope John Paul II was the head of state for the Holy See and not just the head of the Roman Catholic Church, Bush was well within standard decorum to recognize the passing of such leaders. Frankly, I don't see any problem with half-masting for major figures on the world stage, be they heads of state or not.

Heresson is offline Heresson
King
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
There appears to be some controversy over having the flags at half staff in the U.S. (and in France too) for the pope.


The creme of civilisation

quote:

We are supposed to have separation of church and state. And you would never see this happen for Jewish or Arabic leaders. What gives? A political ploy?


Arabic leaders are mostly a bunch of tyrants, with all due respect and all my admiration for queen of Jordan. Israel violates human rights, and its current prime minister is responsible for several massacres of Arabs. Not to mention any Arab or Israeli leader didn't have a similar influence on history and respect in the world as deceased pope.
Also, Arab leaders are not heads of religion, as well as Israeli president. There are 4-6x less Arabs then catholics in the world, 90-100x more than Jews, 200x more than Israelis.

quote:

And France has issues with this as well. They ban headscarves from schools, yet allow this?


No, let women wear scarves.

Separation of state and religion is not and should not be a full one, it's not possible without discrimination. According to French socialist logic, France should break diplomatic reationships with Vatican, and politicians should never attend a mass or whatever.
Separation of state and religion is modern mask for primitive anti-religionism.

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
King
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Apr 2004
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 06:25
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quote:
Separation of state and religion is modern mask for primitive anti-religionism.


Since religion is primitive mind control, and since separation of church and sate is a mask for anti-religionism, countries with separation of church and state are the most free since they combat mind control.

Heresson is offline Heresson
King
of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 06:41
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Religion is not mind control, nor primitive. Who controls the mind of the people in religion, according to You?
What mind control did the missionaries have on mind when they were going somewhere to die there for their faith? What interest did Jesus have in that a week ago JPII influenced many people but our well-being?

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 06:53
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I object to flying flags at half mast. It reminds one of impotence.

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
King
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Apr 2004
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 07:00
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quote:
Religion is not mind control, nor primitive. Who controls the mind of the people in religion, according to You?
What mind control did the missionaries have on mind when they were going somewhere to die there for their faith? What interest did Jesus have in that a week ago JPII influenced many people but our well-being?


Religion is primitive (atleast comparatively) and mind control. The Earth contained the dreaded material, tin foil, so alien mind control devices could not work. The aliens decided that our species was gullible enough to fall for holoprojections and other technotricks, so they started religion. Eventually the stupid ancient humans had deviated so much from the first alien demonstrations to the point that they were fighting amongst eachother, so the alien sent other "prophets" to Earth to keep us in control. This is how Jesus was born, despite Mary being a virgin. This still did not work and the religions continued to fight. The aliens were trying to make us cooperate so we would develop faster, making us more useful slaves. However now that Humans have become more intelligent and have made discoveries in science, we can now see what has really been happening, thus the increase in atheism. The aliens will come down upon us soon claiming to be a deity, will you be one of the brave humans to fight them? Or will you decide to go to "heaven" AKA the salt mines.

The evidence is all around us, from UFOs being in most religous pictures to unusual pregnancy.

I figured your troll about separation of church and state deserved a good counter-troll.

Last edited by Gamecube64 on 07-04-2005 at 07:17

Agathon is offline Agathon
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@ GC64

Brent is offline Brent
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Dec 2000
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 07:19
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I certainly would understand flags not going halfmast for the president of my church, but Catholicism is different because it's so big. I don't think flags would even be halfmast in Utah for the LDS president, and that makes sense to me. Now halfmast for Steven Hawking I'm not sure about, and for Chris Plummer or something I think not. But the Pope, yes. I wonder if there would be halfmast for Gorbachev.

I think banning religious headscarves is much worse than anything else I've seen in this thread.

Do scientists control peoples minds too? Or does Madonna or Britney Spears?

One shoild only join or follow a religion if they study it out in their minds first. And people do leave religions they no longer believe in.

Why is everything thought up by mere humans so much better than everything we've had since the beginning, or at least the beginning of history? How are today's thinkers automatically better than all thinkers of ancient times?

What is mankind doing to serve aliens?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 07:22
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Shouldn't you be outraged in the *ssbirth thread, Brent?

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
King
of Persia
Apr 2004
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 07:29
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We aren't enslaved by aliens yet because we aren't advanced enough to manipulate their advanced technology.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I object to flying flags at half mast. It reminds one of impotence.


And hence the Pope

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:04
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He was the head of state of Vatican City, and more than that he was an important ally of the United States in the struggle against communism.

Brent is offline Brent
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Dec 2000
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:08
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So outraged I won't touch it, but I don't think it makes me evil for still posting elsewhere around here. If this thread is a spinoff from that one, I'm glad someone moved the less objectionable stufff to someplace I'm willing to read.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:15
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Is it right?

I dont know

Is it wrong to be against it?

For sure.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
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Jul 2005
time: 00:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:20 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamecube64
quote:
Separation of state and religion is modern mask for primitive anti-religionism.


Since religion is primitive mind control, and since separation of church and sate is a mask for anti-religionism,


Is not.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
He was the head of state of Vatican City, and more than that he was an important ally of the United States in the struggle against communism.


Plus he showed a rare combination of both virtue and effectiveness.

I mourn, not for him, but for us who must go on without him.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 10:02
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I left France when the controversy only began to mount, so I don't know exactly how's the debate there right now.

In any case, if this is the standard fare everytime a foreign head of state dies while on duty, then I have no problem with it. We shouldn't discriminate against the pope merely because he is the head of a religious state.

OTOH, if it is exceptional for the pope, I'm strongly against it. Especially at a time we are supposed to blatantly treat all religions equally, such a favor given to the catholics goes completely against yhat ye should be doing.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 07-04-2005 10:04
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Not EVERY foriegn head of state... just ones who are our allies and friends.

Brent is offline Brent
Prince

Dec 2000
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 10:09
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Does anyone consider Vatican City as evil or dangerous a country as any of those middle eastern nations?

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 10:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler


Plus he showed a rare combination of both virtue and effectiveness.

I mourn, not for him, but for us who must go on without him.


With some strange priorities at times. It seems that in Africa he put more effort into stopping people using condoms to **** each other than into stopping people using guns to kill each other.

joncha is offline joncha
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 10:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Brent
Does anyone consider Vatican City as evil or dangerous a country as any of those middle eastern nations?


Yes.

joncha is offline joncha
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 11:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamecube64
Dalai Lama The pope only beats him on cool hats. The pope just has so many...


What's that you say?



I beg to differ!









DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
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  Old Post 07-04-2005 11:15
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