08-04-2005 21:09									#1
	A wargamer working at EB. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So QOTM has sent me out to run an errand for POTM's Bat Mitzvah. Since Im at the mall anyway, it wont hurt to step into the EB and browse a little, will it? I pick up the box for Grigsby's World at War - kewl, they actually have a wargame (historical) on the shelf - how often do you see that apart from HOI (or history based FPS, before someone brings those up)? The sales guy walks up to me and tells me how good it is - I mention that Ive just gotten HOI, in the Paradox Strategy 6pack - I actually bought the Strategy Pack at this store, so I feel good telling him that. He tells me this is more of a real war game than HOI (which I kinda figured) - I tell him an old board wargamer - he is too. I dont stay too long - I really DO have to be going, and besides, im NOT buying any more games right now - aside from my yet unresolved hardware issue, Ive got loads of gameplay left in the strategy pack. I dont recall if this guy is the manager - I sure hope so, he was (as befits a board wargamer) not young, and working at an EB at that age is a little pathetic, no? On the other hand if hes "between gigs" as we say, there are worse places to be.

Your thoughts on World at War, Grigsby, wargames at EB, working at EB, whatever.

Last edited by lord of the mark on 08-04-2005 at 23:57

	08-04-2005 23:34									#2
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I do not wish to work at EB.

	09-04-2005 00:09									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

On the other hand, if he is a passionate gamer, then he may just have landed his dream job.

I wont say that you are quick to judge, LOTM, but not all people are in it for the money

Asmodean

	09-04-2005 02:07									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean On the other hand, if he is a passionate gamer, then he may just have landed his dream job. I wont say that you are quick to judge, LOTM, but not all people are in it for the money Asmodean

Well, thats why i though if he was manager it was cool, but just being a clerk, i mean its not like its mainly a war games store, its still two thirds plus console games. And the usual mix of PC games.

	09-04-2005 02:19									#5
	Re: A wargamer working at EB. Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark He tells me this is more of a real war game than HOI (which I kinda figured)

I haven't played World at War, but it looks totally beer and pretzel to me...

	09-04-2005 06:19									#6
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Well, being someone with a pretty good college degree at an ivy-caliber school, working at a bookstore in a fairly low position (supervisor, one step up from seller, for under $10 an hour) ... it's not always about the money, sometimes it's about the books But only when the bills aren't due

	09-04-2005 12:40									#7
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Is HOI any good? Is it real time or turn based?

	09-04-2005 15:14									#8
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RT, but more of a TBS feel than standard RTS games.

Personallly not a huge fan, but the Paradox brigade will be here soon to tell you what's good about the games.

	10-04-2005 05:32									#9
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The idea of working at the local Game (formerly EB UK) doesn't seem so bad some days after i realise i spend around 3-4 hours a day commuting, work in the evening, exceed the WTD and skip lunch most days.

A 20 minute commute there and back, a day that ends as soon as i leave the store, the ability to work with a hangover (well maybe). The salary is less, prospects uncertain but it has a nice uncomplicated feel about it. I can see the attractions.

	10-04-2005 09:57									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Is HOI any good? Is it real time or turn based?

pausable 'continous time' (ie real time, but not RTS as we've come to know and love it)

Havent played HOI, but EU2 is great. Not everyone who likes EU2 likes HOI though, and vice versa, though they share an engine.

	10-04-2005 09:58									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Well, being someone with a pretty good college degree at an ivy-caliber school, working at a bookstore in a fairly low position (supervisor, one step up from seller, for under $10 an hour) ... it's not always about the money, sometimes it's about the books But only when the bills aren't due

Theres no dishonorable work - but again if youre in it for the books, at least theres some books there. Not too many wargames at EB.

	10-04-2005 10:00									#12
	Re: Re: A wargamer working at EB. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I haven't played World at War, but it looks totally beer and pretzel to me...

My impression is its simpler than other Grigsby designs, but still more complex and realistic than a game like Axis and Allies. More wargamey than HOI as in more focused on combat vs econ and diplo, and I presume hex based.

	10-04-2005 16:44									#13
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It's not hex based. Here's a screenshot from it:




It looks like Hearts of Iron, only watered down by a factor of ten.

	10-04-2005 18:57									#14
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Only 10?

	10-04-2005 19:26									#15
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If I'm flithy rich I wouldn't mind working at a game or book store. Keeps my life simple.

	10-04-2005 19:49									#16
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If I were filthy rich I'd retire.

	10-04-2005 20:26									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Well, being someone with a pretty good college degree at an ivy-caliber school, working at a bookstore in a fairly low position (supervisor, one step up from seller, for under $10 an hour) ... it's not always about the money, sometimes it's about the books But only when the bills aren't due

Snoopy

I have 40 people who work for me

if this is your current employment status and you sought employment with me I would wonder how you would feel popping a 30% pay increase along with the responsibility that comes with it

we have a saying in our organization to not let the rabbits eat all the cabbage

first thing is they will become fat and lazy and second they would not know what to do when they realize its all gone

in other words I would start you at 30% higher and allow you to prove yourself

ok first task

help a pathetic old man out

what da frick is EB?

I think maybe Electronic Boutique?

just a guess

Thanks

Grandpa "Wanting to be in the know" Troll

	10-04-2005 20:29									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Standup The idea of working at the local Game (formerly EB UK) doesn't seem so bad some days after i realise i spend around 3-4 hours a day commuting, work in the evening, exceed the WTD and skip lunch most days. A 20 minute commute there and back, a day that ends as soon as i leave the store, the ability to work with a hangover (well maybe). The salary is less, prospects uncertain but it has a nice uncomplicated feel about it. I can see the attractions.

ahh a thinker

see many people jump over the all mighty dollar instead of the bottom dollar which they will net..

quality of life means nothing to many

I applaud you for seeing the trees in the forest

bravo

Gramps

	11-04-2005 00:33									#19
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Thanks Gramps.

It's something i've been thinking about a lot as we're 'reorganising and refocusing' and my department's future looks uncertain. The pay off terms are pretty good (about 15 months salary much of it tax free) so it's a good opportunity to head off to the forest and spend some with the trees.

And yep EB is Electronic Boutique but i guess the debate could be about any shelf stacking/customer service work.

	11-04-2005 19:33									#20
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General Ludd:

I have to agree with your assesement with GGWAW being a beer and pretzles game. I returned this game 3 days after I bought it.

Not being hex based was one reason that killed this game for me. At least in HOI1&2 you battle over provinces and it takes a while to subdue them. Here in WAW you battle then move on to the next target.

I think it's unfair to compare WAW to Axis and Allies but GGWAW might just as well be advertised as a sort of advanced Axis Allies. It might sell better.

	13-04-2005 01:47									#21
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Heres what Tom Chick said about Grigsby's World at War

"FWIW, this is definitely *not* an Axis & Allies level of gameplay. Hell, it's not even Steel Hearts or Irons of Steel or World of Steel, or whatever that cool SSI grand strategic level WWII game from the was called.

Although it's a lot more streamlined than Grigsby's other recent games, it still a very complex and involved design. It takes a long time to do your turn and there are lots of tiny little variable at work. The interface could be better, but it manages.

-------

It's a completely different type of game from Hearts of Iron, so other than subject matter, I'd say apples and oranges.

World at War plays at a much higher macro level, using turns, dice, a few broad unit types, and nothing resembling diplomacy. It definitely won't satisfy the wonky detail-obsessed run-your-nation RPG vibe you get with Hearts of Iron. "


Your thoughts?

	13-04-2005 02:33									#22
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and on the general concept of working where you love whats for sale - well i can buy that. But a wargamer working at EB is like a classical music lover working at say, a Tower Records, except with even fewer classical CDs for sale. And then grabbing on to the one guy who looks at one of the handful of classical CDs in the store and yapping at him. I mean that was the vibe i got, that this guy is spending most of his day dealing with requests for Halo and GTA.

	13-04-2005 07:00									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark and on the general concept of working where you love whats for sale - well i can buy that. But a wargamer working at EB is like a classical music lover working at say, a Tower Records, except with even fewer classical CDs for sale. And then grabbing on to the one guy who looks at one of the handful of classical CDs in the store and yapping at him. I mean that was the vibe i got, that this guy is spending most of his day dealing with requests for Halo and GTA.

You make a difference, though. At Borders (where I work) we have had several classical music workers work there; and the sales in classical are always better, and they have clients who come back regularly because of their presence.

And myself as a science fiction guy, happily worked for two years as a literature bookseller; although I love science fiction mostly, we have not so many science fiction buyers at the store, mostly 'chick lit' / romance and regular fiction; yet i found myself caring about these things as well, even though I still do not read them at all, I nonetheless knew a lot about the sections while working there. It sort of rubs off on you. I enjoyed helping clueless people, even in some of the areas that are bookwise similar to Halo2 etc. type of games. That's where you got the most clueless people after all ...

	13-04-2005 07:03									#24
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 You make a difference, though. At Borders (where I work) we have had several classical music workers work there; and the sales in classical are always better, and they have clients who come back regularly because of their presence. And myself as a science fiction guy, happily worked for two years as a literature bookseller; although I love science fiction mostly, we have not so many science fiction buyers at the store, mostly 'chick lit' / romance and regular fiction; yet i found myself caring about these things as well, even though I still do not read them at all, I nonetheless knew a lot about the sections while working there. It sort of rubs off on you. I enjoyed helping clueless people, even in some of the areas that are bookwise similar to Halo2 etc. type of games. That's where you got the most clueless people after all ...

yup

helping people is nice snoopy

Im glad your there

	13-04-2005 07:29									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker If I were filthy rich I'd retire.

I need a reason to get up. Beside I love books so I wouldn't mind working at a bookstore and meeting fellow book lovers.

	14-04-2005 04:06									#26
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I'd be more likely to buy something from someone who knows what they're talking about and/or has the same interests as me. One reason i hardly ever shop in Dixons/PC World (big UK electrical chain) is that none of the staff have any knowledge about the products they sell or the industry they work in. Doesn't stop them pretending of course or just making it up.

But if i was in Game and i found one of the assistants was a big fan of something like Rising Sun or Steel Panthers and he/she recommended something i'd probably go with it.

I'd be surprised if World at War was simple knowing the designers work and the publishers. I'm tempted enough to order it - i'm hoping for something like Third Reich with maybe a bit more economic management.

	14-04-2005 18:04									#27
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lord of the mark:

I'm definately one of those wonky detailed-obsessed run your nation type guys. Maybe that's why GGWAW didn't appeal to me!

	14-04-2005 21:14									#28
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From what I've read about GGWAW:

It looks like A&A but there is a real kicker of a supply system under the hood. Until you get to grips with it, you're steamroller advance will turn into a disastrous rout when your troops run out of food and fuel.

It starts in Spring 1940, so there's no room for opening the war with an unusual strategy.

Each turn is 3 months of activity.

The Axis is one player, so are the Allies with Russia the third.

I like the first idea (one thing HoI1 fails on is supply, although Hoi 2 does have a better go at it.) The rest mean I wouldn't touch it. Too inflexible for my liking.

	14-04-2005 23:08									#29
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Can we get back on topic please?

The best EB workers are the cute younger guys.