09-04-2005 14:42									#1
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Professor Masuro, it is 2710BC and we have 3 turns until the discovery of Mathematics.

What is your considered opinion on the next tech for us to research?

Bear in mind that most other civs are currently at least on par with us, though I recall that the Babylonians and Lost Boys are behind by Iron Working and HBR.

	11-04-2005 06:47									#2
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We have a number of choices for our next technology:

1) Construction - The Great Wall would be nice but I don't think we need aquaducts quite yet.

2) Currency - Money is always welcome as it allows more technology research and, later, more unit support.

3) Philosophy - A bit of a risk. If we're the first to get it then we'll be one more tech ahead. If someone else gets there first then we'll have wasted some time.

4) Code of Laws - We don't have enough corruption to necessitate courthouses and unless we're going for Republic as our next government we don't need it yet.

5) Literature - Not the worst choice. We're doing well in tech so I don't think we need the Great Library. Although getting the Great Library would keep it from someone else.

6) Map Making - This is not a naval game so not really urgent. As for Right of Passage agreements, Hah!

7) Polytheism - Leads to Monarchy and allows the Temple of Artemis. A temple in every city is very useful and the wonder will generate money later.

I suggest Polytheism for our first choice and then currency. I am, of course, open to your suggestions and arguments.

	17-04-2005 22:41									#3
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Great Library could be an excellent wonder for us, and libraries would be neat as well. If we could complete TGL, we could set our research to 0 and upgrade a lot of warriors

Currency is also a good tech, for the marketplaces.

We need to decide what goverment we want. I vote monarchy byt suspect trip will disagree

	17-04-2005 23:36									#4
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On Philosophy, I'd be absolutely shocked if we were the first to get there. Carthage started with alphabet, after all.

	18-04-2005 00:33									#5
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The Lost Boys already have Philo - we are hoping to trade iron working to them for it.

	18-04-2005 04:18									#6
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The Great Library sounds okay assuming we can afford to put the resources into it. We aren't at war so I guess we're okay.

	18-04-2005 11:44									#7
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In the absence of any firm vote to the contrary, I selected Polytheism last turn when we finished Mathematics. This allows us to keep our options open regarding governments, is a required tech anyway, and we may well be the first to research it (are SGL's on?).

As for the GL, I've never been a big fan of it. Furthermore, in this game in particular, a diversion to an optional tech when it is unlikely that we would want to divert production resources away from Immortals to build any Libraries for some time (or indeed tie up the production of our best city building the GL) seems to me to be an unwise choice.

I would recommend moving on to Construction or Currency after Polytheism.

	18-04-2005 11:51									#8
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We should go for Monarchy. This will be a short game, we can goto monarchy before we are big enough to support Republic, and stay in it until the end.

	18-04-2005 11:51									#9
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On the other hand, not building any cheap Libraries would be a waste of our Scientific trait

	18-04-2005 12:13									#10
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yeah, that was my thinking. Perhaps we should try and build a few in our core..

	21-04-2005 07:28									#11
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Babylon has offered Polythiesm in exchange for Mathematics. On the strength of this offer, I have discontinued researching Polytheism and commenced......errrr.....Currency (I think).

	21-04-2005 07:33									#12
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Sounds good.

	27-05-2005 06:45									#13
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I've emailed 1889 of the Lost Boys on a proposal for tech-trade co-operation. We lack Construction and Literature and are researching Republic. I believe he may be researcing Republic too.

Meanwhile, BOH is researching Construction and already has Literature. I believe we can trade Currency to them.

Longer term, it's going to be impossible for anyone to get a tech lead with 6 civs whoring their techs around as soon as they discover a new one. The only way to get ahead then, will be to forge a lasting tech-trade agreement with one or, more likely, two other civs. The cornerstone of such an agreement must be a strict tech-trade embargo on all other civs.

At this stage, Lost Boys and BOH would be the logical contenders for us, though Babylon may be worth considering. If we exclude BOH, this would mean the other 3 teams (Euphorica, BOH and AM) would need to ally to keep up - given that BOH and AM are at war and BOH and Euphorica are going to have border disputes eventually, I would think this is unlikely.

Do I have general agreement to approach Babylon and Lost Boys to propose a formal tech-trading alliance?

	27-05-2005 07:07									#14
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I agree to that plan.

And if we hit the Euphoricans hard now that will keep us ahead as well.

	01-06-2005 08:40									#15
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I am more and more convinced we should ally with Babylon and Lost Boys. Unfortunately Babylon have not yet indicated their interest - saying they take a long time to discuss things internally.

BOH have their hands full with a war, and IMHO are not to be trusted for any length of time anyway.

On research, we are currently researching Republic (around 15 turns to go IIRC), while Lost Boys have switched to Construction with a view to trading it for Republic. I'd be more inclined to give them Currency for Construction, except that they wasted a couple of turns on Republic first.

This leaves BOH with Literature over us, but we have Currency. They too are researching Construction.

In fact, until we provided Currency to AM in return for Map Making (in advance) and 50g, we held a monopoly over Currency. AM pledged not to trade Currency to anyone else.

I think we need to use what remaining trade value we have for currency by possibly giving it to BOH for Literature, and offering it to Babylon perhaps as a sweetener for the future trade alliance....perhaps in return for their free tech upon entering the Middle Ages.

What is clear is that we will soon enter the Middle Ages, simultaneously with at least one or two other teams.

	02-06-2005 21:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 What is clear is that we will soon enter the Middle Ages, simultaneously with at least one or two other teams.

Our window for Immortals is closing fast, in that case. Let's get a move on and bust some heads.

	02-06-2005 21:33									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Our window for Immortals is closing fast, in that case. Let's get a move on and bust some heads.

Very diplomatic words from our Foreign Minister

But yes, I agree wholeheartedly!

	02-06-2005 21:49									#18
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Oh, er, I meant "let's enlighten our nice neighbours" or is that "Let's give the poor people being repressed by their dictator overlord Democracy!"

	20-07-2005 05:46									#19
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Some developments in trade - I spoke with Paddy this morning.

The situation at the moment as per Moonbars' various negotiations is this:

1. We give Monotheism to AM (done) in return for Literature (done). They will now research Theology and provide it to us when complete as compensation for giving them Monotheism early.
   
2. We offered Monotheism to LB in return for them providing us with Engineering when thery have finished researching it in about 20 turns. They didn't want to lower research cost for others, so refused the trade but agreed to the principle...however, their words indicated they really want to keep their options open. This is a rather dubious deal IMHO and may not hold over time.
   
3. BOH will obtain Feudalism free from Babylon as part of their former alliance deal. Presumably the intention was to give them Monotheism for it.

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 21-07-2005 at 18:49

	20-07-2005 08:30									#20
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If we're going to spend any shields building Libraries then we definitely want to be using them.

	20-07-2005 08:51									#21
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Very good point.....perhaps we should hedge our bets and build a Marketplace too

It's just that Libraries are sooooooo cheap, and they bring culture to our rebellious and rabble-rousing Immortals

	21-07-2005 14:23									#22
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In point 1 you should have said "AM" of course and not "LB"

I will try to explain to that Lost Boy that we need a confirmed deal for engineering, or else we'll be researching it ourselves. if we can do it, we'll store gold for rushing, if not we go full steam for engineering Why not swap to engineering now anyway - before we get feudalism from the horde.

Rather than libraries, i'd rather get more settlers, workers and immortals and expand - getting ready for a switch to a better government. Or a forge into LB territory with our second stack of immortals we are now constructing.. when our GA ends, we would ideally want the period of anarchy to be when we are wanting to max out our food, and with a bunch of new small cities and pop depleted core ones.

	21-07-2005 18:53									#23
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Indeed I meant AM instead of LB - I have edited the original post.

I'm still keen to complete those 2 Libraries, given that they'll only take 3 turns to complete, then move on to what you suggest with Settlers and units....though I'm more inclined to go for Horsemen as Trip suggests for later upgrade to Knights.....Immortals have a limited future and cannot be upgraded to anything more useful for a long time.

	21-07-2005 21:45									#24
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this is true, however i'd rather keep making 30 shiled immortals now, and just make knights later. How much is a horsie -> knight upgrade?

	21-07-2005 21:55									#25
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I was tempted to switch the one Immortal build left to a Horseman, but since this is the last turn we can build Immortals I left it. Next turn we should have Feudalism.

	22-07-2005 05:37									#26
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How about giving some pikemen to our cities before producing many knights? I think we need to look to our defences first. And we still have a lot of immortals we can use to crush the Euphoricans. They have no iron, after all.

	22-07-2005 07:49									#27
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Yes, the Euphorican assault will be purely Immortal/Cat combinations.

If we are indeed moving towards marching upon LB after that, we need to decide whether it will be our remaining Immortals or a new force including Horseman/Knight combinations. This will depend on how quickly we attain Chivalry (BOH will be researching it from next turn), and indeed the size of our cities at that time, since Knights at 70 gold apiece are a slow build for any city with less than 14 or 12 shields.

This of course brings us to what will be our number one burning issue by then - when do we take the plunge into Anarchy in order to emerge into a Republic with the commerce bonus and higher food potential? And can we afford to be fighting a war against LB that may delay that decision?

	22-07-2005 09:25									#28
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I think our next war should be far in the future. Our first priority is to expand and develop our cities. I recommend just building pikemen for the moment, moving to republic, and then seeing how we stand at that point. Perhaps we should avoid any wars until all free land has been taken?

	22-07-2005 11:36									#29
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In chat with ormuzd, he claimed that our tech deal was that upon them researching Theology they would exchange it for Feudalism from us.

Moons, I understood from you that we gave them Monotheism in exchange for Literature immediately and Theology in the future....as Mono gave them the ability to research it and was far more valuable than Literature.

Perhaps you had better revisit the correspondence and take it up with ormuzd or Krill.

	22-07-2005 21:13									#30
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no, they give us theo for free when they have researched it

Ormuzd's English is poor, I will speak to Krill, but as I am at work until 11pm tonight, i will not be able to do this today.