11-04-2005 19:32									#1
	Opening a hut with your second settler Get a bigger avatar today!

Unless I think I'm far behind and need to take some risks, I won't open a hut with my second non-settler. Losing him to a barb in an MP game is usually the kiss of death.

Normally if someone loses their second settler to another MP player or their capital early, I'm willing to offer a restart so the person doesn't have to suffer the whole evening. I occasionally will offer a restart if someone loses it opening a hut, but I resist this because the person doing it is aware of the risk and it's hard to feel sorry for them.

When will you open a hut with your second settler?
I've been known to do it if I think I'm behind. Or if the hut is on a mountain or a hill where even If I get a barb, the settler has a good chance of surviving. (never if there is a mountain touching in the early clock position that could lead to a legion.

But If i'm near where I'm going to plant, I'll just build the city and send the first warrior to harvest the hut.

Sometimes the barb won't even attack and moves off. (to later return when you create the city. )
So while there is not a lot of risk doing this, it happens enough that you have to consider the risk.

What do you guys think, and how do you feel about offering restarts. In a three man game I'm more likely to offer someone a restart if they have an awful start, only because I'm not fond of duels.

	11-04-2005 23:58									#2
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In any number of player game, if a player loses his capital, a reset is in order... but losing the second settler to a hut, it depends on the number of players.

In a four person game... I say no. Why should you get all the advantages of opening the hut, and not the downside of losing the settler. Yeah, it sucks, and puts you at a terrible disadvantage... BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR OPENING THE HUT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Should we get a reset if you get a free unit... or 100 gold... or a good science... While the odds are good, you are taking a chance... and if you lose, your problem.

I was quite impressed over the weekend when somebody did lose their second settler, and didn't really whine (too much) about it. That's the chance you take.

If I'm far behind, I will take that chance... otherwise, I won't, because I don't want to lose the settler.

	12-04-2005 02:51									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I got burned once doing this and it was an evening of extreme misery. The fact that I did it to myself made it all the worse.

I can't imagine a situation where I would do it again.

	12-04-2005 03:17									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You need the extra tech anyway so your only problem is barbs, all other outcomes are good so I'd just chance it.

But after the first tech I'll bypass them untill rep.

	12-04-2005 05:57									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Never in a million years would I risk opening a hut with Mr Second Settler.

	12-04-2005 12:32									#6
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Rarely do I find a hut with my 2nd settler, I usually find somewhere to build quickly with it, but I always open huts I find, the potential benefits outweigh the risks in my opinion by a long way, and I never would ask for a restart if things went wrong, I do not need one, I am good enough to recover

	12-04-2005 23:27									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'll bypass them if I'm about to finish code and select on Monarchy, but if I'm still 6 or more turns away and I think I'm behind, I'll open the damn hut.

	13-04-2005 09:25									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A lot of games lately are with the Villages setting anyway. I know this doesn't prevent hut barbs though. Regardless I'll still open a hut.

	13-04-2005 09:29									#9
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Nope,

I'll build a city right beside the hut, to remove the possibility of barbs.

	13-04-2005 11:16									#10
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Good stuff Rah.. I've always thought of starting general opinion threads on many an MP wonder, even this specific question

To answer: after experience of two or three entire game nights wasted on the risk, no - I'll never (in Rah Rules games) open a hut with the second set*. Regarding restarts - As Ming mentioned with the unspoken, 4 player rule of "THAT'S WHAT YOU GET"; it's not statistically worth the risk. I generally won't even open huts with the 3rd, 4th, or 5th set (on their own)

*Now IF the second settler (or any following) is guarded by a same turn attack able unit popped from a pre-capital hut - I'll near definitely use the second set; even if it means getting the hut a single turn earlier than sending the mentioned unit. Rare, but that situation does happen. The other exception for opening with second set would be if it's on a straight river and the set opens the hut with 2/3 escape moves. In this situation, if capital backup can be produced to buffer any attack before the barb unit catches up, it's bonus inclination. And since barbs never pop out of huts by the 8s in rah rules, either situation on a straight river finds the settlers' survival chance quite high.

For a 3rd, 4th or 5th unguarded set (being on it's own) - I'll definitely open a hut as long as the settler falls on a mountain. Depending on location of the found hut (ie it's situation decided worth); I will probably open with a 4th or 5th set if (he) lands on a hill, forest river, etc.

After which - mass warriors sent for exploration will be used for any future opening(s). For grasslands and non defense terrain - say even with a 35th produced settler, I wouldn't ever open a hut, unless being lazy/tired/bored. A rare occurence for a RR game

[...]

Now for 2x2x.. the strategy is almost always open the hut, regardless of unit used - though for military units, so long as they have one move left to attack or fortify after. Totally different world of gameplay

	13-04-2005 17:55									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yeah... 2x2x is a whole different story.

I'm also more open minded to opening a hut with a settler if there are other factors to consider. Being on a mountain is indeed one of them... or having an attack unit in range... or a good escape route down a river.

I'm also a big fan of not opening a hut with multiple movement units on their last movement point. But I will admit that the last time I wasted a turn to open a hut with a horseman so that I would have a movement point left... somebody else walked up to the hut, got an archer, and destroyed my unit

	13-04-2005 22:51									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Especially knowing that if you had opened the hut you would have released a barb that would have destroyed your unit.

Or the happy/bad luck, you get a city, and the next turn the other player attackes your unfortified horse on surprise with a warrior, and kills the city.

	14-04-2005 05:56									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

RAH....lol....are you making fun of me Well since I lost my second settler to a hut barb last game my opinion is I will always open the hut...I'm just a risk taker type of guy.

	14-04-2005 17:58									#14
	Put an end to popups!

No, not at all, but the circumstances made me think what parameters I use for making the decision you did, and I thought it would be interesting to here what others thought. I have done what you did, but not frequently. And the last two time that I did it and got barbs, the first time the barb walked away without attacking and the second time the barb lost. So I was also interested to see what others thought the actual risk was.

	15-04-2005 09:13									#15
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It's just not worth the pain of being Pathetic for a whole night.

I have enough problems with my game technique (like last week, accidentally clicking "Buy" on a settler build when the city was still size 1). I'll play a bad lie, but I'd rather lose the hut than my 2nd sett.

	16-04-2005 05:02									#16
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I RAH's rules, in general, I only open the hut when I feel I am signficantly behind or I've had too much to drink .

1x1x deity is a totally different story

	17-04-2005 18:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Deity Dude or I've had too much to drink .

Yeah... that changes a lot of things I normally do as well

	18-04-2005 19:45									#18
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah, but for me that means missing odeo years, and moving units the wrong way.

	19-04-2005 03:27									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I hate that, loosing your 2 caravans 10 turns from home becouse what you thought was 3 distance was actualy 4....

	19-04-2005 07:29									#20
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I used to pop them open I think. But then I was always behind and looking forward to a miserable night regardless

	19-04-2005 20:46									#21
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quote: Originally posted by atawa I hate that, loosing your 2 caravans 10 turns from home becouse what you thought was 3 distance was actualy 4....

Or just being so drunk that you hold down the key just a bit too long and SEE YA blub blub blub.