17-04-2005 22:46									#31
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Open the commlink menu on the right. Rightclick on Yang, and then click the option that asks to withdraw troops. Even works under solar spots IIRC.

Aha - I'd forgotten that.

(And invoking the parallel diplomacy gambit, Yang will withdraw)

But I still say that we should try and frame Morgan - the longer term benefits of an almost perpetual Morgan-Hive war far outweigh any short-term disadvantages to us - we can always use the capture-return of a Hive base to sue for peace in the future if Yang gets nasty again

	17-04-2005 23:03									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie But I still say that we should try and frame Morgan - the longer term benefits of an almost perpetual Morgan-Hive war far outweigh any short-term disadvantages to us

True. And it frees the transport for you-know-what.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie - we can always use the capture-return of a Hive base to sue for peace in the future if Yang gets nasty again

Will it work? I know it gets tougher each time in Civ3, up to a point where no talks happen, ever. Is it easier in SMAX?

	17-04-2005 23:18									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Will it work? I know it gets tougher each time in Civ3, up to a point where no talks happen, ever. Is it easier in SMAX?

I sim-tested it after the last one we did a turn or so ago, and it certainly worked every iteration for a second time. (I didn't go beyond that, though)

	17-04-2005 23:36									#34
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Î'm scared of a vendetta against Yang, not to talk about Lal, while we're still against Morgan and the Gaians.

Couldn't we frame Morgan, then, if successful, ask a troop withdrawal?
Can we leave fundamentalism to regain the favor of Yang, or do you really want war?
I know it's hard to take time to discuss that when we must soon give the turn.

	17-04-2005 23:55									#35
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Since Yang leaves when asked, I say we tell him to leave before we try to frame Morgan. This way we will have it easier, should that fail. And yes, I think leaving fundamentalism is a viable option, if the framing works. We can, and should keep trying to win Yang over as long as he does not declare vendetta openly. If he does, he dies.

So for now:

• Ask Yang to leave.
  
• Frame Morgan.
  
• If Framed succesfully, switch off Fundy - go Frontier.

	18-04-2005 01:30									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Since Yang leaves when asked, I say we tell him to leave before we try to frame Morgan.

I agree. Get those units back into Laborers' Throng, then try the frame-up.

If unsuccessful, and if Yang declares vendetta, we can always send our two B-4's at MT on a bombing run

	18-04-2005 02:43									#37
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Just to avoid confusion - Maniac, you're playing this turn, right?

(I've opened and closed it several times, not by saving, but just by exiting)

	18-04-2005 19:38									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oh, I thought you were gonna play it.

I'll download the turn now (forgot to download it to my laptop...), and play some. I probably won't be able to do everything though, so someone else will probably have to do the latest tweaks before sending on the turn.

However our SMAX ownership has greatly increased lately, so I assume this won't be a problem.

	18-04-2005 20:05									#39
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ignore this post

Last edited by Googlie on 18-04-2005 at 21:12

	18-04-2005 21:27									#40
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I had to play in a rush because my faculty's network node closes soon... Therefore I didn't make a full report of everything I've already done, just the highlights:

• The Hive has withdrawn from our territory!
  
• We succesfully framed the Corporation!!! Oh, and 11 credits wired to our reserves.
  
• The veteran B-6 destroyed that veteran plasma sentinels in Vander Eudaimonics. 70% damaged.
  
• B-6 over at Gagarin Memorial flew out to kill that crawler-artifact stack. Mission succesful... and artifact captured and teleported to Fort Liberty!
  
• Fungal Tower flamed. 60 credits acquired.
  
• Skanky's Sileni started worm hunting and already had success (a worm appeared inside the IH base radius ). No capture though, but got 20 credits worth of planet pearls.
  
  Now follows the bad news:
  
  
• Popped a pod with the Disco Volante while it had only 3 MPs left, and an IoD appeared. I'm afraid it might be attacked next turn... The probe is elite and has trance ability, so it'll survive for sure, but will of course be damaged, and have less MPs as a consequence.
  
• Err... I'm afraid we lost a commando B-4 while attacking the second Vander Eudaimonics defender. I thought it would be an easy killing since it was green, but apparently not... A second B-4 then rallied to finish the job, and it killed the defender along with two attorneys (but is now also 90% damaged ). Vander Eud is now empty and ripe for the taking. This defeat is a an example of the point I'm trying to make though: we don't have the forces to invade Terrapeso. To destroy those plasma sentinels we need commando B-6s. As of now, our air force mainly consist of hardened and commando B-4s. So we have to make a choice I think: invade Terrapeso, or popboom.

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2167mid.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	18-04-2005 22:10									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac The Hive has withdrawn from our territory! We succesfully framed the Corporation!!! Oh, and 11 credits wired to our reserves. The veteran B-6 destroyed that veteran plasma sentinels in Vander Eudaimonics. 70% damaged. B-6 over at Gagarin Memorial flew out to kill that crawler-artifact stack. Mission succesful... and artifact captured and teleported to Fort Liberty! Fungal Tower flamed. 60 credits acquired. Skanky's Sileni started worm hunting and already had success (a worm appeared inside the IH base radius ). No capture though, but got 20 credits worth of planet pearls.

GREAT!!!

quote: Originally posted by Maniac [*]Popped a pod with the Disco Volante while it had only 3 MPs left, and an IoD appeared. I'm afraid it might be attacked next turn... The probe is elite and has trance ability, so it'll survive for sure, but will of course be damaged, and have less MPs as a consequence.

Hey, it lives, right? Good enough and no biggie.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac [*]Err... I'm afraid we lost a commando B-4 while attacking the second Vander Eudaimonics defender. I thought it would be an easy killing since it was green, but apparently not... A second B-4 then rallied to finish the job, and it killed the defender along with two attorneys (but is now also 90% damaged ). Vander Eud is now empty and ripe for the taking. This defeat is a an example of the point I'm trying to make though: we don't have the forces to invade Terrapeso. To destroy those plasma sentinels we need commando B-6s. As of now, our air force mainly consist of hardened and commando B-4s. So we have to make a choice I think: invade Terrapeso, or popboom.

Good point. We would need B-6s exclusively for that. Maaning, a possible invasion has to be delayed. We can still prepare an offensive task force to strike either Yang or Morgan as needed, so I think that should be done in any case.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Do we want to withdraw the Gaian taskforce to have more units for a Corporate invasion, or do we want to continue with their current mission of harassing the Gaians?

I say we move them back home for the inevitable backstab by Yang. Remember the old plan of taking 2 bases and making a choke point against the Hive? It seems it was a good prediction of our best move...

quote: Originally posted by Maniac What do we want to produce in our bases?? Further aircraft in FB, OA & FS, or civil production (eg formers)? I've set most bases that had finished their production to crawlers (we can never fo wrong with those in case we don't know what to do), but we might want to change their production, depending on our decision.

Formers, then structures. Whatever happens, we have enough units to pass 1 or 2 "civilian" things in most bases.

Now, I could finish the turn, but I have no clue about the reloading. I never played a PBEM in SMAC or SMAX, and would not want to mess things up...

	19-04-2005 02:12									#42
	Increase Your PM Length

Ok, I downloaded the save now, and will finish the moves described in this thread. Hopefully without causing any major disasters.

Actions taken:

• Finished moving the Crawlers as suggested.
  
• Moved the fleet away from the Gaians. Two teams of two ships each (some parnoia onboard ).
  
• Moved the healthy B-4 from MT to Sector Craterwest.

Last edited by Modo44 on 19-04-2005 at 02:40

	19-04-2005 02:34									#43
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It says the turn is complete now. We have 311 credits in reserve, running -3 per turn. We could trush two or three Crawlers, or upgrade some units (mostly to Non-Lethal Methods, preparing for the popboom?). Actually, we can do the Crawlers and upgrade some units and have cash left.

Should we switch some builds to infrastructure/Formers already? There seems to be an awful lot of Crawlers going up - Crawlers that might have trouble finding places to use. And even if not, they take turns to make - turns that hold up other things. The thing is, Googlie, you can't survive on potential infrastructure that could be built quickly. You need to actually start building it at some point.

Suggestions?

EDIT: The deadline is, in my case, tomorrow morning at around 9 AM. This is comfortable, so I will finish it if nobody else does. I suggest rushing at least two Crawlers and upgrading some MPs to Non-Lethal Methods. I would not know with which ones to start upgrading, so it would be better if others could do that. Good night.

Attachment: acdg3-sparta-2167-almost-end.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

Last edited by Modo44 on 19-04-2005 at 03:01

	19-04-2005 03:34									#44
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I've downloaded the turn - now that someone else has saved a midturn I can save it then open it on my rig without a double-play message being given

So I can finish it and post it

	19-04-2005 07:23									#45
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Some additional moves:

• Put the FL crawler to work at the mine
  
• Flew out MT’s B-4 to provide air cover for the returning fleet (to see if mayhaps any Morgan vessel was hiding) and turned up a slew of Hive troops massing in the fungus (see below)
  
• Gave orders to some Tomcat crews that were just lollygagging around (2Nuts strand – put them on forest planting (where would a road go there?); Tomcat FB (at Messena) on roadbuilding
  
• Changed a couple of build orders – FL and Ironholm from a Former (2 turns) to a Fungiformer (3 turns) – we’ll more than recoup that extra turn when they halve the time in clearing fungus prior to forestation

Attachment: 2167 - hive masses.jpg
This has been downloaded 17 time(s).

	19-04-2005 07:29									#46
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Rushed crawlers at TH - 17 credits - and at GH - 21 credits

Also put a "Retire This" in the build at Oly Academy (it has an aerospace) for a futire B-6 or F-6 crawler rush

Here's the final .sav - 3 hours to deadline

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2167 final.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

Last edited by Googlie on 19-04-2005 at 07:44

	19-04-2005 07:56									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac The Hive has withdrawn from our territory!

yeah - but see that screenie I posted showing the forces that he didn't have inside our territory, but heading our way - can you spell sneak attack?

quote: We succesfully framed the Corporation!!! Oh, and 11 credits wired to our reserves.

great!!! That should put a spanner in their works.

quote: .....Mission succesful... and artifact captured and teleported to Fort Liberty!

quote: Now follows the bad news: CENSORED Vander Eud is now empty and ripe for the taking. This defeat is a an example of the point I'm trying to make though: we don't have the forces to invade Terrapeso. To destroy those plasma sentinels we need commando B-6s. As of now, our air force mainly consist of hardened and commando B-4s. So we have to make a choice I think: invade Terrapeso, or popboom

It costs 60 per to upgrade B-4's to B-6's, so we might just want to look at doing it for any we have that are not Commando or Elite

All-in-all a great turn - especially the snagging of that AA. Let's get it to a network node for a new tech asap

	19-04-2005 08:10									#48
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And before the turn is final - I'd like to suggest we place MT's sensor on the forested mineral special, rather than where it's proposed right now

The turquoise circle is the coverage from my suggestion ....... the yellow one is where it's currently being started

Attachment: mt's sensors.jpg
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

	19-04-2005 08:15									#49
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.... and if we twinned it with a strategically-placed one at 2Nuts Strand ......

Attachment: twonuts sensor.jpg
This has been downloaded 14 time(s).

	19-04-2005 10:28									#50
	Got spare money?

Finishing now. No upgrades, as those need to be discussed a bit more. I think we should rush the Crawler in Mesena next turn, though.

A spore launcher destroyed a Forest near Iaci Base.

Posted the turn.

	19-04-2005 20:51									#51
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I realized I forgot to flame that worm outside Climactic Research. Sorry about that. I was in a hurry yesterday, as I hadn't anticipated at all that I would have to play (part of) the turn, so I didn't think everything through I guess.

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Ok, I downloaded the save now, and will finish the moves described in this thread.

Welcome to the "turnplayer club".

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Flew out MT’s B-4 to provide air cover for the returning fleet (to see if mayhaps any Morgan vessel was hiding) and turned up a slew of Hive troops massing in the fungus (see below)

Better keep sufficient military units present in Minas Tirith.

I guess we'll have to restart the war in three turns or so, no?

quote: [*]Gave orders to some Tomcat crews that were just lollygagging around (2Nuts strand – put them on forest planting (where would a road go there?)

The road would go to the tile itself. I can see two uses for that:

1) The road only costs one terraformer turn to make. This means we'll already gain back its bulding time by the turn the former will save moving to its next location. (The nutrient SW of 2NS I assume? - or rather the rocky tile to the NW? Then of course there wouldn't be a time gain.)
Building a road after the forest has been planted would cost three turns.

2) While 2NS has most need of minerals right now, and a forest is best, when the base is more connected and integrated to the rest of our faction, when it is getting ready for a popboom, nutrients would be more valuable and I assume it would be best to build a condenser farm on that nutrient bonus, for seven nuts IIRC. If there was a road already present on the tile, we could at a later date mass-move a couple formers to it without losing a turn.

That's why I suggested building a road there.

quote: [*]Changed a couple of build orders – FL and Ironholm from a Former (2 turns) to a Fungiformer (3 turns) – we’ll more than recoup that extra turn when they halve the time in clearing fungus prior to forestation[/lquote] What tiles shall we defungus and forest? [quote]Rushed crawlers at TH - 17 credits - and at GH - 21 credits Also put a "Retire This" in the build at Oly Academy (it has an aerospace) for a futire B-6 or F-6 crawler rush

Sounds great.

quote: All-in-all a great turn - especially the snagging of that AA. Let's get it to a network node for a new tech asap

Yep. The closest one is in Tegea Harbour.
(Fort Soup is just as far, but the node has apparently already been linked. It doesn't show as "unlinked node" when I press the 'g'o commando for the artifact.)

quote: Originally posted by Googlie And before the turn is final - I'd like to suggest we place MT's sensor on the forested mineral special, rather than where it's proposed right now The turquoise circle is the coverage from my suggestion ....... the yellow one is where it's currently being started

I agree the turquoise circle would be the best spot for a sensor array. Problem is... when our formers get there, the Hive will also already be there. Therefore to make sure we at least have a sensor, may I suggest we finish the current one? Thereafter we could judge whether we can secure the area for the formers to build a second sensor.

Oh yeah, for the record, here are two screenies I made while playing the first half of the turn.

First: Yang magnanimous?? Must be having a bad day.

	19-04-2005 20:54									#52
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Framing operation succesful.

Attachment: hiveframe2167.jpg
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	19-04-2005 21:41									#53
	Increase Your PM Length

Let us first see what happens with the Hive-Morgan war. It just might turn the tide, and Yang's units away from us. If that happens, we will definately want to get off Fundy, and improve relations.

	19-04-2005 22:56									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Let us first see what happens with the Hive-Morgan war. It just might turn the tide, and Yang's units away from us. If that happens, we will definately want to get off Fundy, and improve relations.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! (Beavis mode! )