12-04-2005 21:49									#1
	Downloading mp3z question Get a bigger avatar today!

We are allowed to make copies of music we have purchased. So if I own a cd, I can rip it. If I decide to sell the cd, I can still keep the copy, cuz I paid for it. The artist (really the company) got their cut.

So what about copies of music I once owned, but sold before I copied it? I already paid the corporation for the right to use it, so don't I have the right to copy it?

	12-04-2005 21:56									#2
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No. In the US, you own only certain rights to the intellectual property contained on the CD. Copying and selling is not one of them.

	12-04-2005 21:57									#3
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In Canada you have the right to copy and give away copies of any CDs you own.

	12-04-2005 22:05									#4
	Re: Downloading mp3z question Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We are allowed to make copies of music we have purchased. So if I own a cd, I can rip it.

Yes. You are legally allowed to VCR, and you are legally allowed to make cassette mix tapes.

So, you can transfer between mediums as much as you wish. However, after the passing of the DMCA, you are not allowed to circumvent any protections intended to prevent you from transferring between mediums.

quote: If I decide to sell the cd, I can still keep the copy, cuz I paid for it. The artist (really the company) got their cut.

Uhm. Not legally, I think. You have to sell the original and all copies together.

quote: So what about copies of music I once owned, but sold before I copied it? I already paid the corporation for the right to use it, so don't I have the right to copy it?

No. The right-to-copy belongs to the copyright holder. Buying a Weird Al CD does not give you the right to start stamping and selling Weird Al CDs. A monopoly on the right-to-copy lasts lifetime+70 years these days.

	12-04-2005 22:11									#5
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No. In the US, you own only certain rights to the intellectual property contained on the CD. Copying and selling is not one of them.

Not selling the copy, copying and selling the original. You keep the copy. We are allowed to make copies of media we own, so long as we don't distribute it.

	12-04-2005 22:23									#6
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I know what you said, Che. The answer is still no. The copy is for backup purposes. If you sell the original you have no right to a backup.

	12-04-2005 22:25									#7
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When you sell the original CD you sell with it all rights you had to individual use of the CD. One of those rights was backup copy. The backup copy becomes an illegal copy if it remains in your possession. It must either be given to the new owner of the CD or destroyed.

	12-04-2005 22:35									#8
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In Holland you can legally download as much as you want whatever you want(not sure on games though), however, you are not allowed to 'share'. No idea how the situation is here.

	12-04-2005 22:45									#9
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In Canada you can both legally download and legally upload.

	12-04-2005 22:49									#10
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That's interesting, KH, does the Canadian allow theft and fencing as well?

quote: Originally posted by alva In Holland you can legally download as much as you want whatever you want(not sure on games though), however, you are not allowed to 'share'. No idea how the situation is here.

It's legal to download anything except software (which obviously includes games). You should check with the local entertainment rights protection instance for the rules in Belgium. I really believe the legislation should be drawn equally internationally to prevent misunderstandings.

	12-04-2005 22:56									#11
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse When you sell the original CD you sell with it all rights you had to individual use of the CD. One of those rights was backup copy. The backup copy becomes an illegal copy if it remains in your possession. It must either be given to the new owner of the CD or destroyed.

Unenforcible laws are stupid, throw rocks at them.

	12-04-2005 23:01									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni That's interesting, KH, does the Canadian allow fencing as well? .

apparently, yes.

http://www.rmc.ca/athletics/varsity...ng/index_e.html

	12-04-2005 23:52									#13
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Okay, I thought I'd post here, rather than start a new thread....

Where can I get a *free* winamp equivalent for a Mac? I've got a load of stuff that I don't want on my iPod or would simply mess up iTunes if I added it to the Library. Simularly, where can I get something akin to Tagscanner?

	12-04-2005 23:52									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni That's interesting, KH, does the Canadian allow theft and fencing as well?

The music industry agreed to it in 1998. In recompense they are given a certain amount of money per blank CD or portable music device sold.

	13-04-2005 00:17									#15
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That's awesome. I hope such a scheme would take off here, as well ( there were some sounds, but nothing more )

	13-04-2005 00:18									#16
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They want to welch on the deal now that P2P has taken off, but the government told them to shove it.

	13-04-2005 00:19									#17
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government

	13-04-2005 01:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The music industry agreed to it in 1998. In recompense they are given a certain amount of money per blank CD or portable music device sold.

That's a pretty fair construction. Over here, I think, they're contemplating the introduction of a compensation fee on broadband connections, which would be a similar measure.

	13-04-2005 01:07									#19
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse The music industry agreed to it in 1998. In recompense they are given a certain amount of money per blank CD or portable music device sold.

We have that too for blank CD's. Now they want to extend it to PC's as well, which is absolute bollocks IMO.

	13-04-2005 01:16									#20
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Finland has the CD levy and downloading is legal, but the lobby is working hard on getting some legislation against that as well. I doubt the government here is as w00tly as Canada's. IOW the entertainment industry wants to have its cake and eat it too.

Of course, resourceful Finns have bought their blank CDs for much lower prices from abroad for a long time now

	13-04-2005 01:24									#21
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quote: We have that too for blank CD's. Now they want to extend it to PC's as well, which is absolute bollocks IMO.

That's indeed rubbish.

The broadband tax seems to make sense, though.

	13-04-2005 01:27									#22
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quote: Where can I get a *free* winamp equivalent for a Mac? I've got a load of stuff that I don't want on my iPod or would simply mess up iTunes if I added it to the Library. Simularly, where can I get something akin to Tagscanner?

ipodlounge.com

I admit that I take a perverse joy in the Canadian recording industry's problems. They were quite happy to screw the consumer with a an unjustifiable levy - now that it's bit them in the ass consumers should feel free to enjoy Canada's liberal downloading laws.

	13-04-2005 01:28									#23
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quote: The broadband tax seems to make sense, though.

Really? Why should you subsidize a dying industry? Do you have to pay taxes to horse breeders when you buy a new car?

	13-04-2005 01:44									#24
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Well, the argument made, and I can only confirm its validity for the Dutch ISP market, is that broadband ISPs advertise their connections as allowing one to download many files quickly.
This argument holds the underlying assumption that P2P-networks will be used to acquire (copyrighted) material.

	13-04-2005 02:25									#25
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So what if they are. The laws need to be change. The old system is encouraging hoarding rather than creativity.