12-04-2005 21:52									#1
	Should an 'Environmental Damage' tax be put on foreign goods? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

One of the reasons US goods are so expensive is our polution control laws. Industry is forced to add expensive devices and proceedures to their manufacturing process so instead they take their businesses where such laws are lax or nonexistant, like China. Chinese cities are disappearing under a toxic fog reminicent of the late 60s and 70s in the US. Then they undersell American business here at home. Loss of jobs, tax base and strategic industry results. In order to make clean American manufacturing more competitive and world industry cleaner I suggest we create a poluters tax, and slap it on the dirty wicked commie...erm, I mean poluting counties goods.

Agree?

	12-04-2005 21:53									#2
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Absolutely!

Why stop there? A slavery tax should be imposed also, so that American workers don't have to compete with slaves or underpaid workers.

	12-04-2005 22:02									#3
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No non-tariff barriers, if you want a tariff vote for that.

	12-04-2005 22:03									#4
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Depends on the country. But as Chana would see it as a tariff, it is probably not a wise thing to do...

	12-04-2005 22:18									#5
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Slavery yes, underpaid, no. What is underpaid? In the Philippines a factory worker might make $4 a day and be lucky to have a job. The fact that they'll work for that is the only reason they have a factory. I can see slapping a duty on that factories goods if they are poluting the environment in order to level the playing field w/ US manuacturers, but I can't see slapping another duty on because of the cheaper wage. That playing field will level due to market forces, and the Phil people really need the work.

Che, you should come along next trip and see...

	12-04-2005 22:21									#6
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Underpaid by local standards, Lancer. In places like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc., workers often get paid less than the local minimum wage. If you can't pay your workers a living wage in their own country, you shouldn't be competing against companies in America that do.

	12-04-2005 22:23									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha No non-tariff barriers, if you want a tariff vote for that.

We have a right to say collectively that we will not buy or will act punatively against products or services made in a way which offends us. You do not have an inalienable right to sell to me.

	12-04-2005 22:32									#8
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so boycott the product, no NTBs. of course those are pretty much just tariffs in any event, but be up front about it.

	12-04-2005 22:48									#9
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This is a very big can of worms to open anyways - especially for the US with it's 'sovereignty is king' attitude to international relations.

If you put tarrifs on those countries which have laxer pollution controls than you what is to stop similar tarrifs on US goods from countries that have tougher ones?

If other countries have chosen to have lower pollution standards (as the US chose to do when it was poorer) why should they be forced to raise them before they regard them as worth paying for?

If the US did put tarrifs on them would the US be any better off?
Sure your producers would benefit from less competition but your consumers would suffer from higher prices.

The only way to have a lasting solution to this problem (as coersion or bribery only works when it is being applied) is through international cooperation and a pooling of sovereignty in regards to the problem.

Unfortunately the US is too mired in 19th century ideas about the sovereignty of nation-states to take up such a 21st century solution.

	12-04-2005 23:11									#10
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I don't think it would ever make it through the WTO.

	12-04-2005 23:16									#11
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Sounds good,
I agree that Europe should introduce it for Goods from USA and other Countries with lax environmental laws

	12-04-2005 23:25									#12
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what che said

	12-04-2005 23:30									#13
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Underpaid by local standards, Lancer. In places like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc., workers often get paid less than the local minimum wage. If you can't pay your workers a living wage in their own country, you shouldn't be competing against companies in America that do.

Why, this would kill the American fruit industry! You commie!

	13-04-2005 01:25									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar The US putting an environmental damage tax on foreign goods

Finally, all our DU will be made in America.

	13-04-2005 02:41									#15
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Underpaid by local standards, Lancer. In places like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc., workers often get paid less than the local minimum wage. If you can't pay your workers a living wage in their own country, you shouldn't be competing against companies in America that do.

Just apply a communism tax as those countries seem to be most abusive to their workers and be done with it.

	13-04-2005 02:45									#16
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You're on a roll today, Ogie.

	13-04-2005 04:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Sounds good, I agree that Europe should introduce it for Goods from USA and other Countries with lax environmental laws

Come to California we have some enviromental laws you Germans would find to be pretty damn strict. We're still the only place which regulates CO2 output for a car per mile driven.

	13-04-2005 04:13									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Az You're on a roll today, Ogie.

That's troll.

	13-04-2005 05:44									#20
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Here fishie fishie fishie.

	13-04-2005 07:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by el freako The only way to have a lasting solution to this problem (as coersion or bribery only works when it is being applied) is through international cooperation and a pooling of sovereignty in regards to the problem. Unfortunately the US is too mired in 19th century ideas about the sovereignty of nation-states to take up such a 21st century solution.

layers of sovereignty

You don't happen to be familiar with Jonathan Schell?

	13-04-2005 07:35									#22
	Re: Should an 'Environmental Damage' tax be put on foreign goods? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Agree?

Tell me how much pesticides and fertilisers the US agri-business use again?

	13-04-2005 07:37									#23
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To the OP:

No.

	13-04-2005 07:47									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral You don't happen to be familiar with Jonathan Schell?

No i'm not actually

My beliefs have been shaped by books by the following:

Mancur Olson
G. John Ikenberry
Mark Leonard
Jeremy Rifkin
Paul Kennedy
Martin Wolf
Paul Seabright

	13-04-2005 09:16									#25
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I've actually read Paul Kennedy's The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers. It was a very informative book.

	15-04-2005 12:45									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Come to California we have some enviromental laws you Germans would find to be pretty damn strict. We're still the only place which regulates CO2 output for a car per mile driven.

Sounds like America and the world will profit if the next american president is a californian
I assume Arnie will do a much better job than Bush jr.
and will improve the relations the USA have with the rest of the world to pre Bush levels