13-04-2005 04:24									#1
	Rumsfeld shifts blame Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7476696/

	13-04-2005 04:27									#2
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Oh there's a surprise.

	13-04-2005 04:32									#3
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In other "Personal Responsibility" (tm) news:

"DeLay Urges GOP to Blame Dems Over Ethics" - Washington Post headline

	13-04-2005 04:32									#4
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The audacity of the man...

	13-04-2005 04:36									#5
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Little child needed a stern talking to from Daddy.

	13-04-2005 04:43									#6
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The quicker Iraq can form a Government the quicker the troops can withdraw (and redeploy to the Iranian border).

	13-04-2005 04:55									#7
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And in other news, water is wet.

	13-04-2005 05:16									#8
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Another example that this administration has no clue what is going on?

What, does Rumsfeld think they've just been having a party? What does he think they've been trying to do over there?!!

	13-04-2005 05:24									#9
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Republicans continuing making complete fools of themselves.

I sense we will be seeing blue in '08.

	13-04-2005 05:28									#10
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What exactly is the problem? The Iraqis do need to get their government formed, and soon...

	13-04-2005 05:36									#11
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Rumsfeld is acting like they haven't been trying for the last 2.5 freaking months to get a compromise so they could get that done.

	13-04-2005 05:39									#12
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Well,
1. They had a government before the invasion/occupation/liberation.
2. The "insurgency" has been going on longer than 10 weeks.
3. Even after the government is formed, we will still have U.S. troops on Iraqi soil.
There are many more problems with the Rumsfeld point of view but I don't have time to name them all.

	13-04-2005 05:46									#13
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quote: Rumsfeld is acting like they haven't been trying for the last 2.5 freaking months to get a compromise so they could get that done.

No, he's not. He's saying that 2.5 months is long damn time and that they need to get this **** wrapped up. God forbid someone tell it like it is...

	13-04-2005 05:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Rumsfeld is acting like they haven't been trying for the last 2.5 freaking months to get a compromise so they could get that done. No, he's not. He's saying that 2.5 months is long damn time and that they need to get this **** wrapped up. God forbid someone tell it like it is...

And what does he think they've been doing for those 2.5 months? Sitting on their asses? This isn't the US where we can usually resolve things in a short period of time. It'd be like during the 2000 election fiasco if some Eurocom came out and said the US needed to get its act together and get a President.

	13-04-2005 05:57									#15
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quote: And what does he think they've been doing for those 2.5 months? Sitting on their asses?

How would I know? He never said what he believed they have been doing for the past two and a half months; he simply said the process is taking too long.

quote: It'd be like during the 2000 election fiasco if some Eurocom came out and said the US needed to get its act together and get a President.

Horrible analogy. I doubt this hypothetical Eurocom would have been partially responsible for the elections happening in the first place, as Rumsfeld is in Iraq...

	13-04-2005 06:03									#16
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Never minding the fact that Euro's can be notorious for Government formation. Recently in Holland it took 8 months to form a Government after the election.

I'm not sure what electoral system the Iraqis used... but if it was proportional representation it's going to take much longer to form government than in a simple first past the post system like the US or UK.

	13-04-2005 06:03									#17
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quote: he simply said the process is taking too long.

And that is why he has no clue what is going on. I'm surprised they've made so much progress with all the fighting since the election.

	13-04-2005 06:05									#18
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quote: And that is why he has no clue what is going on. I'm surprised they've made so much progress with all the fighting since the election.

Oh, so because you are surprised and Rumsfeld doesn't agree with your position, he "has no clue what is going on"? Talk about unjustified arrogance...

	13-04-2005 06:41									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: And that is why he has no clue what is going on. I'm surprised they've made so much progress with all the fighting since the election. Oh, so because you are surprised and Rumsfeld doesn't agree with your position, he "has no clue what is going on"? Talk about unjustified arrogance...

When he has no clue about what is going on then he has no clue what is going on. Why doesn't he get all pissy that China hasn't become a Western Democracy and what's taking so long? It'd probably do more good.

Oh wow... a country that has ethnicities that are waiting to get at each other's throats are talking a few months to come up with a government... My lord! That's incredible

But of course, Rumsfeld can never be wrong to you. No, no, it isn't that he doesn't understand the situation. He is the only one that understands and the Iraqis are just sitting around doing nothing... riiiiiight .

	13-04-2005 06:52									#20
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The fact is that this is the first election in Iraq, in which there is currently a civil war, as well as various distinct cultural groups. This means that the liberal model of majoritarian rule just can't apply. In order to have any form of stability in Iraq, the government must assure representation and provide protection to the various minorties, which, in the case of the Kurds, are ethnicly very distinct from the Shias and Sunnies. The government also cannot afford to have any blind spots, or signs of weakness, as this would only be capitalized on by the insurgency. As a frame of reference, the US, without all those tiresome ethnic differences, and without an ongoing war, took from 1783 (end of Revolutionary War) until 1789 (ratification of Constitution by majority of states) to form an effective government.

Also, as an aside, I can't stress enough the importance of this government. For all the US effort, where the war will be won or lost is within the Iraqi parliament, and will be through Iraqi politics. When you get right down to it, this conflict, like all others, is political, and the lesson that we learned in Vietnam is that no matter how many battles we win, if we don't address the politics of the matter, we will still lose.

Last edited by Admiral on 13-04-2005 at 07:03

	13-04-2005 06:59									#21
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^ What he said.

	13-04-2005 07:04									#22
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quote: But of course, Rumsfeld can never be wrong to you.

Yeah, that's the reason...

	13-04-2005 08:48									#23
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What an idiot.

But no surprise.

	13-04-2005 11:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Rumsfeld is acting like they haven't been trying for the last 2.5 freaking months to get a compromise so they could get that done. No, he's not. He's saying that 2.5 months is long damn time and that they need to get this **** wrapped up. God forbid someone tell it like it is...

Nevermind the fact that it took the United States 8 years to institutionally remake itself from the Articles of Confederation (ratified March 1, 1781) to the US Constitution (ratified June 21, 1788)...

	13-04-2005 12:00									#25
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...not counting the time it took to effect the changes ratified in the USC to correct the failings of the AoC nor the time that that little war we had before the AoC was ratified took.

	13-04-2005 12:03									#26
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The Iraqis haven't even started work on their constitution yet, so I fail to see how your comparison is relevant. How long it took to choose the delegates to the Constitutional Convention would be a more appropriate fact, although the patent absurdity of comparing 1776 America with 2005 Iraq would still exist...

	13-04-2005 12:08									#27
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Yeah, because the American Revolutionaries were united in the cause of a free nation. The Iraqi Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds have this little problem of hating each others guts...

	13-04-2005 12:09									#28
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That, of course, is the only difference...

	13-04-2005 12:10									#29
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I'll take the blame on this one.

Rumsfeld is still mad from that one time when I dissed his momma.

I said "Rumsfeld, yo momma is so stupid, she took a spoon to the Superbowl!"

	13-04-2005 12:19									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten That, of course, is the only difference...

...which shouldn't take more than a few weeks to work out. Two and a half months is far too long to stop the hate.
[/RUMSFELD]