15-04-2005 00:13									#1
	Turn 260: 1345AD Got spare money?

Opening the save.

	15-04-2005 00:16									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Diplomacy:

GoW sends Dyes unaccepted.
RP accepts Peace, Furs, Iron, sends 200g, WM

	15-04-2005 00:54									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Builds:

EotS finishes Jet.
Cyclone finishes Worker.
Dissidentville finishes Jet.
Velocity finishes Library.
Pollution strites WoC.
WoC finishes Nuclear Sub.
SA finishes Jet.

Most builds changed to University or Library. Should be able to cut off a turn or two on Space Flight. We have enough military to hold out till then regardless. (and any more might cost us a turn even.)

	15-04-2005 01:07									#4
	Tired of ads?

I guess there is no end to what one can see in this game. Vox had a city flip to a civ with no cities?

	15-04-2005 01:13									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You know, when I first read that I just thought that Rhoth was taking the piss...

	15-04-2005 01:27									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Military Advisor:

ND Forces:

31 Worker
20 Marine
22 Infantry
103 Tank
58 Mech Infantry
18 Transport
7 Destroyer
2 Battleship
9 Nuclear Sub
19 Bomber
11 Jet Fighter

GoW Forces:

22 Worker
4 Explorer
31 Marine
10 Cavalry
65 Tank
76 Mech Infantry
56 Artillery
7 Cruise Missile
29 Transport
9 Carrier
2 Submarine
21 Destroyer
3 Battleship
7 Nuclear Sub
35 Bomber
6 Jet Fighter
2 Rider

	15-04-2005 01:56									#7
	Put an end to popups!

What happens when a Jet bombards a city that has a Jet on Air Superiority? Which plane uses Attack, which Defend, or do they both use Attack?

	15-04-2005 02:35									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ND has build a city on the S tip of Lego named Gibralter. Moving the Pickets down there to keep them from being able to round the tip unspotted.

Sent 1 or 2 Jet fighters to each of our Carriers out to sea, replacing some of the Bombers. 2 Carriers sent back to harbor to heal up.

Unloaded all units from Transports. Set up 3 Transports 5 tiles from each ND city as spotters (and bait if they aren't thinking correctly). Each is backed up by a CV group within 3 tiles and at least 1 Sub, 1 BB and 2 DD, which are all out of Bomber range of any ND city. (They still don't have any Carriers).

Covered a bunch of tiles with units, and added to the garrisons of most of the coastal cities.

Started several builds that will end up as Tactical Nukes. Brought research down to 0%. We can save up cash for 1-2 turns and still finish just as quickly, and as there are quite a few Libraries and Universities coming online in the next 2-4 turns it will be better to have commerce towards cash until then. Also if we can get a deal with GoW for Space Flight then we won't have wasted so much commerce.

	15-04-2005 02:47									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Save closed.

	15-04-2005 04:59									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Aeson What happens when a Jet bombards a city that has a Jet on Air Superiority? Which plane uses Attack, which Defend, or do they both use Attack?

I think the bombing jet is treated as a bomber and faces the same calculation as to being attacked and being shot down.

Given that jets bombing is nearly zero success, I would not use it for that, unless it was critical. I have had very little success with bombing via jets and since PTW does not have lethal, not much value to it.

	15-04-2005 09:31									#11
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I guess there is no end to what one can see in this game. Vox had a city flip to a civ with no cities?

What?

	15-04-2005 10:13									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yup:

Attachment: clipboard.jpg
This has been downloaded 31 time(s).

	15-04-2005 11:43									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I think the bombing jet is treated as a bomber and faces the same calculation as to being attacked and being shot down. Given that jets bombing is nearly zero success, I would not use it for that, unless it was critical. I have had very little success with bombing via jets and since PTW does not have lethal, not much value to it.

Which has better odds? If a Jet intercepts a Jet...

	15-04-2005 14:35									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

In C3C jets are good at bombing planes in cities, then boats if there are no planes left > 1HP. They also draw fire from jets/fighters that would otherwise intercept bombers. They can also pillage, albeit somewhat feebly.

However, I think that's all different to PTW.

	15-04-2005 14:37									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

On the new Lego city - well put that in yer flip calculators and smoke it!

Could a lego settler exert a cultural influence?

	15-04-2005 16:28									#16
	Suffering from ads?

You know, I love the name of the new Lego city. It suits them quite well

	15-04-2005 21:04									#17
	Got spare money?

Tell MZ to cut and paste those PM's to his HD. That is what I do with emails that of things I may wnat to read later.

	15-04-2005 21:07									#18
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Aeson, I do not know the answer to that one. What do you have in mind? Well I was thinking of testing it, but I realize Iwould have to reinstall to get the PTW editor.

PM alexman as I know he did some work on AA and may have the story.

	16-04-2005 00:09									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was just wondering who had better odds. Because if we put our Jets on Air Superiority, and they have bad odds against Jets bombing, then we could lose our Jets. The other way around, if we bomb with our Jets (or do other missions that can be intercepted) and the Air Superiority Jets have the advantage, we could lose our Jets.

	16-04-2005 00:45									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

AFAIK the are only safe on recon. I never had one shot down on that mission. All others I have lost them to jets or bombers even.

I tend to only bomb if it say a ship on 1hp, that woudl otherwise get away. Once in a while I will bomb cities, when I feel I am not getting mch use out my jets anyway and I would like to try to get one more hit in.

	16-04-2005 10:44									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm thinking that 'flip' is BS.

Look at the distance to palace.

The question is, why would they do that?

	16-04-2005 10:47									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The other question I have is just what ND is going to do with 18 transports and 103 tanks?

	16-04-2005 11:31									#23
	Got spare money?

Roth says they are gong to recapture the city, so either that is true or we will know real fast.

	16-04-2005 11:39									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, Lego did have a new Rifleman, so either it did flip, or Lego drafted. I don't see what Vox could possibly gain by giving a city to Lego and have them draft one of their pop away for a Rifleman...

	16-04-2005 23:34									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I doubt Rothi would just flat out lie, so I would give him the benefit of the doubt. I remember when he first started posting here and we helped him learn to play.

Like Aeson said, not much to gain by giving away a city, when they finally have a flicker of hope. I guess it could be a feeling of loyalty.

	16-04-2005 23:41									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What if ND gave them resources and they disband all of their units into an ICBM or tac nuke build and finish it with a cash rush?

Odds on who that missile would be aimed at?

	16-04-2005 23:50									#27
	Suffering from ads?

They have 1 Transport. That's 25 shields. Then they have 1 Rifleman. That's 15(?). 7 Infantry, 18 each, 126. 1 Settler, 8. Total of 174. They'd need 126 more shields for a tactical, which couldn't reach us. They'd need 326 more shields for an ICBM which could reach us.

It's possible ND would give them enough cash to rush the rest, but it would almost certainly make ND GoW's enemy unless they were in on it too, in which case it's ND and GoW vs us, which makes Lego's 1 nuke irrellevent.

-------------

It looks like Bombers are basically obsolete for now (though they could become very big in naval battles). ND's bombing of Monsoon has done 0 damage, and lost them a Bomber. We will have a SAM there soon too.

With our CV setup, I think we can kill a few more Bombers if we answer the question of who wins with a Jet vs Jet intercept. We put Jets on intercept on CVs to cover Transport spotters, ND bombs the spotters and the Jets intercept.

	16-04-2005 23:59									#28
	Support Apolyton

From what I recall, defending jets win more of the time. I used to play a lot of modern wars. I couldn't escort bombers so I would bomb first with fighters/jets to flush out interceptors.

Does no one still have the PtW editor installed?

2 cities, 50 jets each, Hotseat mode, set all of one set of jets to intercept and then bomb the city with the other 50. Should take about 10 minutes.

	20-04-2005 01:40									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sorry guys for not being around, my pc had crashed big time. I'm getting it up again, but had both hardware and software problems. Suits me right for still running win98... but that's definately done now.

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm thinking that 'flip' is BS.

I would think the same.... if not:

quote: Look at the distance to palace.

The only thing I can imagine, is that now that the palace is gone, their last settler functions like a palace. I mean, in the calculations the distance to that settler is taken. But even than, before any city will flip you need citizens (could be converted Lego slaves). For a decent chance, you need a lot of citizens too.

DeepO

	20-04-2005 01:43									#30
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

BTW, an extra rifle from drafting would make sense. The city is starving, and it will keep on starving until it gets more culture (in 10 turns). All the citizens that would get lost like that, would make better riflemen. The city can stably support a size 7, not 8 nor 9.

DeepO