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DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 17:37
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I've just been informed that there will be protests in Hangzhou tomorrow. It seems that Hangzhou government is feeling left out in the current political climate and needs to remind the country that it exists too. The foreign teachers here have been warned to remain at home during this time. However, this is more likely to keep them from reporting on this embarrassing incident as there will be more police here tomorrow than at a donut convention.

Here's a friendly article about protests in 'modern' China:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/15/i...ia/15china.html

quote:

China Is Pushing and Scripting Anti-Japanese Protests
By JOSEPH KAHN

Published: April 15, 2005


BEIJING, April 14 - Enraged about Japan's tendentious textbooks and territorial disputes in the East China Sea, Sun Wei, a college junior, joined thousands of Chinese in a rare legal protest march on the streets of Beijing last weekend.

Yet the police herded protesters into tight groups, let them take turns throwing rocks, then told them they had "vented their anger" long enough and bused them back to campus.

"It was partly a real protest and partly a political show," Mr. Sun said in an interview this week. "I felt a little like a puppet."

China has tapped a deep strain of nationalism among its people, gambling, analysts say, that it can propel itself to a leadership role in Asia while cloaking its move for power in the guise of wounded pride and popular will.

But the government also seems to have taken steps to control - some say manipulate - a nascent protest movement to prevent a grass-roots challenge to the governing Communist Party.

In the last few weeks, relations between Asia's two leading powers have reached their most serious crisis since diplomatic ties were re-established in 1972. China has confronted Japan over newly revised history textbooks that gloss over wartime abuses. It stepped up its claim to disputed islands and undersea gas reserves between the countries.

China took Japan and the United States to task for declaring that they would jointly defend Taiwan in case of an attack from the mainland.

After weeks of hints, Chinese leaders said outright on Wednesday that Japan did not have the moral qualifications to become a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. That effectively thwarted Japan's ambition to attain that status as part of an overhaul plan this year.

The steps have proved immensely popular at home. But stirring up patriotic sentiment to unite the country carries big risks, because party officials fear nothing more than unscripted political activity. Furthermore, they depend heavily on the good will of the major foreign powers to keep investment flowing and the economy humming.

"The basic policy of our government has been to be conciliatory to Japan and the rest of the world," said Pan Wei, a political theorist at Beijing University. "But that policy has become less viable today, when people are demanding a harder line."

The government's new approach will face a major test this weekend. It will juggle an emergency diplomatic visit from the Japanese foreign minister, Nobutaka Machimura, with a possible second wave of rallies against Japan. Messages have circulated on Internet forums and mobile phones calling for demonstrations in Beijing, Shanghai, Shengyang and Chengdu, though it remains uncertain if the authorities will allow them to proceed.

One well-connected government media editor in Beijing quoted a senior Communist Party leader as saying he was pleased with how protests unfolded last weekend. But the same official also warned about the spread of nationalist sentiment, including within the party itself.

"There is a state of concern, even panic, about whether this could get out of control," the editor said.

Hu Jintao, China's recently anointed top leader, adopted a nationalist stance after taking full control of the government and military last fall. In March he arranged for the country's legislature to approve a law authorizing military action if Taiwan moves too far toward formal independence.

Officials said the law was necessary because delegates at the generally passive legislature, the National People's Congress, demanded that the government do something concrete to check Taiwan's independence movement. But even Chinese officials say the legislation backfired overseas, probably delaying European plans to lift an embargo on arms sales to China.

China often emphasizes that it intends to have a "peaceful rise," integrating itself into the world economy while living in harmony with its neighbors and the United States.

For many years China extended that white-glove policy toward Japan. But it also fueled domestic rage with virulent anti-Japanese propaganda. Now, political analysts say, the government cannot easily suppress emotions over what many people see as Japan's failure to atone for past atrocities.

Some analysts say the authorities have managed the protests deftly, though, tolerating and even encouraging discourse that would normally be taboo. "I think the movement has been heavily manipulated," said Yu Jie, a critic of the government who has written extensively on China-Japan relations. "The sentiment against Japan is real, but the government has co-opted it for its own purposes."

Officially, the Foreign Ministry says China had no choice but to allow people to protest.

"This protest was held spontaneously by some Beijing people upset about Japan's wrong attitude and actions on the history of the invasion" of China and other issues, said Qin Gang, the Foreign Ministry spokesman.

Earlier this month a government-run association of retail stores issued an appeal to boycott Japanese-made goods. The boycott's promoters have had free rein on the Internet and the use of the tightly monitored network for mobile phone text messages.

Internet sites and government-run newspapers have also rallied support for an online petition to keep Japan off the Security Council. The official news media claim that more than 30 million people signed the appeal.

The police, who routinely deny permits for protest marches and sometimes detain people who seek the permits, approved the anti-Japan protest with little advance notice last week.

But in one indication of how the government sought to manage the event, at least four leading organizers of previous grass-roots efforts to confront Japan were ordered to stay home, the four said in separate interviews. One organizer said the authorities had reminded him of that order by cellphone on Saturday.

"We were told this was an entirely spontaneous event, so the people leading the movement must have no role," said Tong Zeng, who has been organizing anti-Japan activities since the late 1980's. "The police wanted to maintain tight control."

Mr. Sun, the college junior, said he felt that most of those who had taken part, like himself, cared deeply about what he said was Japan's hostility toward China. "There is not a single person at my university who would defend Japan," he said. "It is clear that the Japanese have forgotten their own past."

But he said the micromanagement of the protest left him feeling that his own government was "playing tricks."

China arranged similar violent demonstrations against the United States in 1999, just after the American bombing of China's embassy in Belgrade. The United States called the incident, which occurred during NATO's war against Serbia, a mistake. But many Chinese saw it as intentional because China opposed the war.

Now, unlike 1999, the Chinese government has used the demonstrations as a popular platform for announcing a new policy. On a high-profile visit to India this week, Prime Minister Wen Jiabao bluntly stated what lower-level diplomats have been hinting for weeks: China will not allow Japan to assume a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council until it meets Chinese demands.

"Only a country that respects history, takes responsibility for history and wins over the trust of peoples in Asia and the world at large can take greater responsibilities in the international community," Mr. Wen said.

Shi Yinhong, a foreign relations expert at People's University in Beijing, said the demand was a clear move for political leadership in Asia.

"The moral issue is China's trump card over Japan," Mr. Shi said. "China is now playing that card."


I hope my students have enough self-respect not to participate in this. Although they will get a free ride downtown for it. Most of the universities in Hangzhou have been moved out of the city into a "higher education zone." So the government will have to bus the students downtown, if they want to have enough for a significant showing. I'm sure some of them will just take advantage of the free trip to go shopping and enjoy the West Lake. I wonder if the police will arrest them for not protesting.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 20:16
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So you're mainland Chinese? How d'you manage to post things like this and keep that Taiwanese flag there? I guess the long arm of Government doesn't extend to Apolyton

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 21:31
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DaShi is a foreigner. The MSS lets things like that go. However, if a real native were to do something like that......

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 21:34 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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MSS?

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
MSS?

Ministry of State Security
These are the guys who go bump in the night.

duke o' york is offline duke o' york

Emperor

Oct 2001
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 21:55
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They're the guys who bump (people off) in the night aren't they?

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 21:58
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give that man a prize!

duke o' york is offline duke o' york

Emperor

Oct 2001
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 22:03
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Do I get to choose it?

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 22:09
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The standard MSS prize is a 9mm to the back of the head.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 15-04-2005 22:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
So you're mainland Chinese? How d'you manage to post things like this and keep that Taiwanese flag there? I guess the long arm of Government doesn't extend to Apolyton


Ming can face down the Man in Beijing.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 07:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
So you're mainland Chinese? How d'you manage to post things like this and keep that Taiwanese flag there? I guess the long arm of Government doesn't extend to Apolyton


I'm sticking it to the man,. . .man.

Fairly quiet and pleasant so far, except for the heavy banging of construction work. I'm in the north end of town, but I should be able to hear some shouting from here. I'm going out soon to do some shopping. Maybe I'll get hassled by the man.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 07:32
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Not to quibble, but the Chinese have a good case about Japanese behaviour during WW2, as do the Koreans and many other locals.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 08:25
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And they had 50 odd years to do it. Perhaps if they spent that time seeking reparations and trying to better the relationship between the two countries rather than reenacting the atrocities committed against them on eachother, they wouldn't need to be crying about it now. The point of these protests is entirely political.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 09:25
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Hu Jintao & Junichiro Koizumi holding hands and saying - "Never Again"



But it will not happen

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 09:31
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I'd love to see that as well. But both sides are so stubborn and nationalistic that it's nearly impossible at this time.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 09:44
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If the French and Germans could do it... jeez... what does that say about the Chinese and the Japanese?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 10:42
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Another world war or two?

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Another world war or two?


A marginal question on the subject: was Manchuguo like Vichy France? To what extent did the Emperor's puppet Government collaborate with the Japanese? I know some pretty nasty stuff with chemical weapons and what not went on there.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:17
  Old Post 16-04-2005 20:43 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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I think the world ought to do more to put pressure on China to stop anti-nation propaganda. I think this is some real ****ed up crap.

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
time: 05:17
  Old Post 18-04-2005 12:47
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The protests were lack-luster compared to Shanghai, but there was some property damage. However, the news reports that no damage was done by protesting students. It was done by former Tiannanmen Square protestors, members of Falun Gong, and one farmer who single-handily destroyed seven cars. In other news, the Japanese so moved by the protests apologized, gave all their money to China, and committed ritualistic suicide; George Bush sprouted a wings and a halo and declared world peace after destroying America's nuclear weapons supply with his eye beams, and then Saudi Arabia announced that every Friday would be called National We Love Israel Day. Frankly, I don't think the Chinese propaganda machine is even trying anymore.

My students were not able to take part in the protests this weekend. Only certain schools were allowed to go. Instead, they were huddled into classrooms where they could be monitored by their Chinese teachers. Their only consolation was that they were permitted to protest in their classrooms, if it was anti-japanese protesting.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:17
  Old Post 18-04-2005 13:16
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quote:
Originally posted by DaShi
The protests were lack-luster compared to Shanghai, but there was some property damage. However, the news reports that no damage was done by protesting students. It was done by former Tiannanmen Square protestors, members of Falun Gong, and one farmer who single-handily destroyed seven cars. In other news, the Japanese so moved by the protests apologized, gave all their money to China, and committed ritualistic suicide; George Bush sprouted a wings and a halo and declared world peace after destroying America's nuclear weapons supply with his eye beams, and then Saudi Arabia announced that every Friday would be called National We Love Israel Day.


For all I understand when I'm watching CCTV news on SBS, they could well be saying **** like that...

Although calling their market reforms "socialism with Chinese characteristics" is just as stupid....

And what are they thinking calling their national ideology "Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong thought-Deng Xiaoping thought"? Sounds pretty schizophrenic to me....

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
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And has anyone spotted the irony of calling the Chinese National TV channel "CCTV"... which in the west stands for "Closed Circuit TV" which is used for surveillance?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:17
  Old Post 18-04-2005 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Not to quibble, but the Chinese have a good case about Japanese behaviour during WW2, as do the Koreans and many other locals.


Except this has next to nothing to do with the protests and instead this is just a cynical attempt by the CCP to redirect the rising public anger over corruption & cronyism in the government towards a foreign target. China and North Korea have very long histories of trying to drag up six to eight decade old history with Japan in order to distract their population away from problems at home.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 18-04-2005 13:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
A marginal question on the subject: was Manchuguo like Vichy France? To what extent did the Emperor's puppet Government collaborate with the Japanese? I know some pretty nasty stuff with chemical weapons and what not went on there.


The Manchurians were a totally Japanese owned political entity while Vichy retained some independence. Manchuria did have a large portion of Chinese industry and fossil fuels so it was very useful for the Japanese plus the Manchurians, like Korea, supplied men for the Japanese army.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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Communist Party of Apolyton
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quote:
Except this has next to nothing to do with the protests and instead this is just a cynical attempt by the CCP to redirect the rising public anger over corruption & cronyism in the government towards a foreign target. China and North Korea have very long histories of trying to drag up six to eight decade old history with Japan in order to distract their population away from problems at home.


Patriotism is the opiate of the masses.

Seeker is offline Seeker
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London Ontario
Jan 1970
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"except for the heavy banging of construction work"

welcome to the New Asia

I think this will seriously backfire on the central authority in china one of these days. Creating a 'mass movement' based on nationalism, riots, etc is playing with fire, especially in china.

One of these days there is going to be a major banking crisis in china and people will just be fed up with the government.

When the number of disgruntled in the PLA equals roughly the general population, there will be chaos.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 19-04-2005 00:19 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
And they had 50 odd years to do it. Perhaps if they spent that time seeking reparations and trying to better the relationship between the two countries rather than reenacting the atrocities committed against them on eachother, they wouldn't need to be crying about it now. The point of these protests is entirely political.

SKorea's government has officially done the reparations thing in the 60's/70's with PARK Chung-hee's drive towards modernization. Tech/financial aid from Japan, etc.

That doesn't stop political rhetoric and public opinion, however: it's not that different from the current thing in vogue around American politics, that of the homosexual/liberal/terrorist/evil un-American-anti-Christian-non-Republican agenda.

And most of those Korean troops in the Japanese Army weren't exactly volunteers.

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