17-04-2005 17:21									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The latter. After all, they hadn't invented toilet paper yet.

They used vinegar soaked sponges, or leaves. At least they did on Hadrian's Wall.

	17-04-2005 18:01									#32
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OMG! They had gay anal sex with vinegar sponges on Hadrain's wall!!!!!!!!! That must hve really made an impression on the natives!

	17-04-2005 18:06									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Though if the enemy is a Frenchman, then, well... we just get Chirac mad, and who cares about him anyway .

But the vast majority of crusaders were French. That's why the ME refers to Euros as Franks.

	17-04-2005 18:13									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove OMG! They had gay anal sex with vinegar sponges on Hadrain's wall!!!!!!!!! That must hve really made an impression on the natives!

Calm down dear...

I think you'll find they just wiped their own arses with the vinegared sponges, not using them on the natives' faces.


There was a lovely documentary on a planned walk along part of Hardian's Wall which showed the soldiers' lavatory, complete with sluice where the sponge on a stick was kept, so that running water would keep it fresh.


The Celts were also rather less uptight about sexual matters, and sexual freedom for women too.

	17-04-2005 18:14									#35
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom The Celts were also rather less uptight about sexual matters, and sexual freedom for women too.

Yeah, but could they build a wall?

	17-04-2005 18:24									#36
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Yeah, but could they build a wall?

Looking for some dry-stone walling ? Try Dun Aenghus.

Here you go, sir:

http://www.shee-eire.com/Sites&Monu...s/dun-ainfo.htm

	17-04-2005 18:58									#37
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Okay, let's me rephrase. Could they build a wall all the way across England?

	17-04-2005 19:05									#38
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Okay, let's me rephrase. Could they build a wall all the way across England?

Of the same kind as Hadrian's ?

Probably not.


But they were capable of erecting large scale structures, such as Dun Aenghus, and Maiden Castle.

	17-04-2005 21:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I think Dracon is also looking at it as pissing some Muslims off when we don't need any more of them pissed off.

\

I never understood this line of reasoning. What are the fears over? That because of a movie Muslims will rise up and start killing people. That already goes on among those already willing to do such things. Is it the fear that everday lawabiding Muslims may start killing people in the suburbs? If all it takes is a movie to do something like this then there is a greater problem than everyone is willing to admit. At most people will be upset and not watch the movie or protest. We already get that with Christians, gays, blacks and any other group of people. Why are the muslims so special that they can't be offended just like the rest of us. Afterall it is a right of all Americans to be offended at least a few times in our lives. If not then we feel left out.

	17-04-2005 21:55									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber \ Why are the muslims so special that they can't be offended just like the rest of us.

C4

	17-04-2005 22:06									#41
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Does anyone think that they'll show the massacre of Jews and Moslems by the victorious crusader armies?

I'd be surprised if it showed the burning alive of thousands of Jews in the city's main synogague, or the kiling of Muslims in the Al-Aqsa Mosque? If they did, it would be a massive leap forward in terms of telling the truth in historic epics.

	17-04-2005 22:16									#42
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The massacres occurred during the first Crusade. I believe that this story takes place afterwards.

	17-04-2005 22:29									#43
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I just checked, and you're right.

But seriously, I'd like to see a movie about the first crusade. This one is in the timeframe of the 3rd crusade. I'd like to see a few more of them filmed. I think that the First Crusade, the Baltic Crusades and the Spanish Crusade/Reconquista would make interesting films.

Also, Orlando Bloom is starring in "Kingdom of Heaven". Shades of "Troy", anyone?

	17-04-2005 22:37									#44
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As I said earlier, the last two big historical epics tanked. I'm wondering if this one flops, will the brief resurrgence of the Hollywood epic will be over?

	17-04-2005 22:40									#45
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Yes, and it'll be replaced by the Bollywood Musical

	17-04-2005 23:03									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove The massacres occurred during the first Crusade. I believe that this story takes place afterwards.

Yep, must be shortly before the third crusade, so before 1189. If they show how Saladin sieges Jerusalem (which wasn't really a big siege, as GePap already said), they show probably the prelude to that crusade, the Christian defeat in the battle of Hattin 1187, and the following loss of most areas conquered by Christians, mainly during the first crusade and its aftermath.

	17-04-2005 23:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I never understood this line of reasoning. What are the fears over? That because of a movie Muslims will rise up and start killing people. That already goes on among those already willing to do such things. Is it the fear that everday lawabiding Muslims may start killing people in the suburbs? If all it takes is a movie to do something like this then there is a greater problem than everyone is willing to admit. At most people will be upset and not watch the movie or protest. We already get that with Christians, gays, blacks and any other group of people. Why are the muslims so special that they can't be offended just like the rest of us. Afterall it is a right of all Americans to be offended at least a few times in our lives. If not then we feel left out.

Remind me never to hire you as a policy consultant . In the "War on Terror" we kind of need Muslims to be on our side. Muslims being pissed that the "War on Terror" is really some sort of new Crusade, with this movie showing the American people's real views on Christian-Muslim relations (if it showed Muslims in a bad light) and that help may dry up quickly.

Remember, the Muslim stats in the ME are quick to anger over any percieved slight. Their population isn't that friendly to the US in the first place.

	17-04-2005 23:18									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Really though, we need to make a movie called, "Historic Big Fight Scene" and just have it run for 2 hours straight, nothing but fighting.

There was a sketch in The Fast Show about a film called "The Long Big Fight", based on the same premise.

	18-04-2005 00:12									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Remember, the Muslim stats in the ME are quick to anger over any percieved slight. Their population isn't that friendly to the US in the first place.

The public in the ME is angred over everything and anything their goverment or religious leaders tell them they should be angred at. I don't see much of anything that they aren't pissed at. You seem to think we should run everything passed them, even a hollywood movie, before its done. Why don't we just ask their permission to take a **** why we are it. It makes about as much sense as asking them if a movie can be made or not.

	18-04-2005 00:14									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber The public in the ME is angred over everything and anything their goverment or religious leaders tell them they should be angred at.

... and coming from an American, no less.

	18-04-2005 00:17									#51
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd ... and coming from an American, no less.

And your puny little nation of curling and celion deion worshipers are next

	18-04-2005 00:28									#52
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Oh dear me, hope I didnt offend any Canadians when I referred to them as a nation of stupid sports and horrible entertainment personalities. I sure hope they don't start bombing things and killing people.

	18-04-2005 05:34									#53
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It looks to be some what better then the run of the mill Hollywood stuff though I doubt it will be historically correct in the least.

	18-04-2005 08:11									#54
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From what I have seen, Bloom plays a criminal turned knight defending Jerusalem as Saladin's armies come to take it after beating the Crusader Kingdom's armies (as BeBro explained). From the previews, you see dozens of trebuchets firing flaming ammunition at the City (I hate it how Scott tries so hard to make medieval battlefields look modern, with all this "firepower" shooting off), so obviously the Siege of Jerusalem is depicted as this HUGE battle.

	18-04-2005 08:16									#55
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Well... It was captured something like 30 times over the years and unsuccessfully sieged god knows how many times. I'm sure one of them was a big battle.

	18-04-2005 08:24									#56
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BAH!

What I have noticed is that the trailers for this movie get worse as time goes. The first one was regal and grandiose-now they have ones set to rock guitar-what the ****!

	18-04-2005 08:34									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber The public in the ME is angred over everything and anything their goverment or religious leaders tell them they should be angred at. I don't see much of anything that they aren't pissed at. You seem to think we should run everything passed them, even a hollywood movie, before its done. Why don't we just ask their permission to take a **** why we are it. It makes about as much sense as asking them if a movie can be made or not.

Oh dear, you still don't get it

If there was a French blockbuster about how the Americans are evil and used Vietnam to portray it, you'd have the Limbaugh's and O'Reilly's of the world going on about how the French aren't really our allies and yadda yadda... and all the anti-French stuff does tend to make a difference in how the countries treat each other. I don't think the 'freedom fries' debacle went down so well.

I could definetly imagine similar discontent with a movie about the Crusades that shows the Muslims in a bad light. It'll just make it harder for the pro-US leaders over there to keep holding to that position if the more anti-US people are 'proven' right.

It's just bad PR.

	18-04-2005 08:40									#58
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This movie won't do anything, really. That kurd Saladin is handled like the great and respectful enemy (he has always gotten very good press in the West), and in the end the Muslim's win.

	18-04-2005 08:41									#59
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No, I realize that now. But I'm saying if it was handled like traditional Hollywood fare and the Muslims were seen as the ultra evil villians.

	18-04-2005 10:04									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui No, I realize that now. But I'm saying if it was handled like traditional Hollywood fare and the Muslims were seen as the ultra evil villians.

Indeed.
My point was that the crusades is currently a vulnerable point of analogy in the minds of many people w/reference to contemporary politics and international relations. It is frequently cited by extremist muslims, and (once) by Bush in an incredible faux paz. I was just saying that any smidgen of evidence that the movie was biased in favour of the crusaders might be taken by analogy as an indicator of how Americans view the war on terror.... which can't be construed as a war on islam if it wants any credibility overseas.