19-04-2005 01:12									#91
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Looks like crab, talks like people...

Great episode to watch stoned.

	19-04-2005 01:26									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I get it. Some people place more value in a movie than others. I wouldnt really care either way if the French protrayed Americans bad in a Vietnam movie, hell I can get that in American movies. So I get it just fine Imran, some people are so damn sensitive that they just can't take any kind of critisim and your saying Muslims are that way. I would like to think that most muslims that aren't into murder and mayham would simply choose not to watch a film if it protrayed them in a bad way. That or speak out about it and then get on their lives with paying the bills and such. But maybe your right. Maybe Muslims can't do that. Sort of sad

It's because Muslims are human beings and human beings get offended when their group is portrayed in a bad way. As Dracon has already pointed out (very well, might I add), there are more than two options. It isn't just super-friendly to US and ultra-terrorists. There is a scale involved. A film that offends can definetly lead to colder relations without going into full blown terrorism sponsorship.

As pointed out, look at the reaction to the Jews to "The Passion". You may think they are "so damned sensitive", but did they turn to "murder and mayham" as you think the alternative is for the Muslims? Jews, however, do have very good relations with the US at the current time. Muslims have some doubts as to how the relationship with the US stands. There needent be any other incidents to further spread doubt as to the US's view.

There are plenty of well educated Westernized Muslims who are this close to asserting that the "War on Terror" is really a "War on Islam". I don't think more fuel for that fire is a good thing.

	19-04-2005 01:43									#93
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I would question the well educated, Westernized moniker if all it takes is a sinle movie to get them to declare that we are waging a war on Islam when we have such a large "Fifth Column" existing in Dearborn. Should we also take 24 off the air Imran?

	19-04-2005 01:50									#94
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Though I have to confess that I would be interested in seeing a film taking the Saracen PoV ala the Age of Kings campaign.

	19-04-2005 01:51									#95
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Yes, ONLY a single movie. Things never build up in your world? It's just another check mark in the column. And I think most Muslims in the US already think the War on Terror is really just a War on Islam, even before the movie comes out... though a hostile movie may cement it for them.

	19-04-2005 01:59									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And I think most Muslims in the US already think the War on Terror is really just a War on Islam, even before the movie comes out...

They'd be dead or imprisoned if that were true. I will concede that our turning a blind eye to Chinese and Russian abuses in both Xinjiang and Chechnya may cloud the issue but it is still a deluded position to take. Rather akin to militia rantings about UN black helicoptors.

	19-04-2005 02:05									#97
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I think they see that invasions over human rights (well, as the justification is now) are not undertaken against a country like Burma, which, if anyone, needs to have its government overthrown. Or like someone like Mugabe. And when President Bush slips and says "Crusade", there is an argument that that may have been a Frudian slip.

	19-04-2005 02:08									#98
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The more that I think about it I actually would like to see a movie about Saladin. It shouldn't be that hard to come up with a script given the wealth of material about his life. It was my favorite AoK campaign at least.

	19-04-2005 02:10									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It's because Muslims are human beings and human beings get offended when their group is portrayed in a bad way. As Dracon has already pointed out (very well, might I add), there are more than two options. It isn't just super-friendly to US and ultra-terrorists. There is a scale involved. A film that offends can definetly lead to colder relations without going into full blown terrorism sponsorship. As pointed out, look at the reaction to the Jews to "The Passion". You may think they are "so damned sensitive", but did they turn to "murder and mayham" as you think the alternative is for the Muslims? Jews, however, do have very good relations with the US at the current time. Muslims have some doubts as to how the relationship with the US stands. There needent be any other incidents to further spread doubt as to the US's view. There are plenty of well educated Westernized Muslims who are this close to asserting that the "War on Terror" is really a "War on Islam". I don't think more fuel for that fire is a good thing.

First of all I would hope that Jews didn't turn to murder and mayham over a movie because it would have been incredably retarted to do so.

Just how long Imran should the film industry pander to a potential "muslim backlash" Can we stop worrying about the "black backlash" now that the muslims clearly are on the edge of some dark pit? I guess the "japanese backlash" ran out of steam despite the dastardly way they were protrayed in the movie Pearl Harbor. And I also guess the expected "church of scientology backlash" was narrowly averted since Battlefield Earth was laughed off the big screen. (sorry, i couldn't help myself)

I'm all for not trashing minorities unnecessarily but damn man where does the tippy toe lets not offend anyone end. If they really want to be Americans than they will embrace being offended. It's a story where some Muslims are going to be killing Christians and vice versa. Just deal with it

	19-04-2005 02:12									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I think they see that invasions over human rights (well, as the justification is now) are not undertaken against a country like Burma, which, if anyone, needs to have its government overthrown.

Let them point out the forces we have free that can undertake such a mission and they'll have my vote to be in the front lines.

	19-04-2005 02:29									#101
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quote: Just how long Imran should the film industry pander to a potential "muslim backlash"

It should go for historical accuracy... so forever really. The problem is trusting Hollywood to actually care about historical accuracy as opposed to making the other side seem evil, see Braveheart.

	19-04-2005 02:31									#102
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom More than 100 men in Saudi Arabia were sentenced this week to imprisonment and flogging after being arrested in March for "deviant sexual behavior," the Human Rights Watch announced today. "Prosecuting and imprisoning people for homosexual conduct are flagrant human rights violations," said Scott Long, director of Human Rights Watch's LGBT Rights Program. "Subjecting the victims to floggings is torture, pure and simple." Two weeks after their arrest, 31 of the men were sentenced to prison terms ranging from six months to a year, and to 200 lashes each. Four men were sentenced to two years imprisonment and 2,000 lashes. Seventy others, initially released without sentencing, were summoned back and sentenced to a year in prison. Homosexuality is illegal in Saudi Arabia and is punishable by imprisonment, corporal punishment or death. "

Yeah, I thought that the penalty was death? Do the Saudis have some logical means by which to determine which offenders get off with imprisonment and which get death, or is it left to the whims of the judge?

	19-04-2005 02:33									#103
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How about a historical epic about the criminal justice system in Saudi Arabia, or would that be culturally insensitive?

	19-04-2005 03:59									#104
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I would question the well educated, Westernized moniker if all it takes is a sinle movie to get them to declare that we are waging a war on Islam

Not just a single movie... but a movie placed on top of two wars in middle eastern countries, a perceived support for Israel (although I think the Bush admin. has done a fair bit to get Sharon to tone down... could be wrong though), a patriot act that has resulted in the arbitrary arrest of a number of muslims, the unlawful & unconstitutional imprisonment of muslims at Guantanamo bay, an unfortunate freudian slip by the President, and the furious pressure being put on Iran to scrap it's nuclear program when the nuclear program of the country it is trying to defend itself from, Israel, was subject to no sanctions or furious pressure... could be other things, I but I can't remember at the moment.

Whether these things really do add up to a war on Islam I don't know (and I don't think so either)... but if someone as intelligent as Gore Vidal thinks the US is on the verge of totalitarianism and cataclysmic collapse, then clearly exaggerration is not a monopoly of the stupid...

quote: How about a historical epic about the criminal justice system in Saudi Arabia, or would that be culturally insensitive?

Not culturally insensitive... geopolitically insensitive perhaps...

	19-04-2005 04:05									#105
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There should be a historical epic about thomas jefferson beating his slaves.

	19-04-2005 04:14									#106
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd There should be a historical epic about thomas jefferson beating his slaves.

Well, they did one about he and Sally. I was dissappointed, I was hoping they would have hims sing "Sweet Black Angel" or "Brown Sugar".

	19-04-2005 04:43									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Dracon II but if someone as intelligent as Gore Vidal thinks the US is on the verge of totalitarianism and cataclysmic collapse, then clearly exaggerration is not a monopoly of the stupid...

I never said that but I am curious why you mention Vidal's name as if I would care.

	19-04-2005 06:52									#108
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Dunno... it was just the first thing that came to mind because he was on Lateline the other night predicting the apocalypse.