17-04-2005 07:42									#1
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Which civ -of all from vanilla to conquests- is the one that you would rather gargle a bucket of radioactive waste than use?

	17-04-2005 08:52									#2
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There is none. I don't want to gargle that bucket.

Anyway... In Conquests, there isn't really one I absolutely loath. I generally like to have at least one of Religious, Industrious, and Agricultural, since those are my favorite traits, but even that isn't absolute.

	17-04-2005 09:46									#3
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I hardly ever play Babylon or Egypt. Culture is not my thing.

	17-04-2005 12:01									#4
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I'm with Kloreep, though I tend to pick civs that have 2 of those traits. I'm more of a builder, so any combination of those can be fairly deadly.

I can't stand Seafaring civs for the most part

	17-04-2005 12:41									#5
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Koreans

	17-04-2005 19:39									#6
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Depends. In SP, I don't really mind. In PBEM I prefer to have any of Expansionist, Industrious, and Agricultural. But in PBEM I think the UU is just as important as the traits...

	17-04-2005 22:21									#7
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I hate expansionists and don't like religious, but I like so much industrious, scientific, militaristic and seafaring. Commercial and agricultural are OK.
The worst civ to me is Arabia, and the bests are Scandinavia, Germany, China and Ottomans (included by UU).

	17-04-2005 23:15									#8
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None. When running an epic game, I choose random civ with random AI oppoents, cultural link off.

	18-04-2005 01:36									#9
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how about most unwanted neighbour?

it's getting dull having mayans, incans, aztecs and iroquois for neighbours every single time!

	18-04-2005 02:38									#10
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quote: Originally posted by lebensraum how about most unwanted neighbour? it's getting dull having mayans, incans, aztecs and iroquois for neighbours every single time!

that's why you remove culturally linked starting position from the starting game options.

	18-04-2005 03:58									#11
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For my last 7 games, I started with the Incas and Mayans near me. I was about to start breaking things. Then I realized that someone had changed the settings in one of the .savs I downloaded...

	18-04-2005 18:39									#12
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What I noticed was that someone managed to change the city display to include the name of the civs. This occured when it was my turn as Emperor of Rise of Rome and includes any new SP games formed.

Also note that if you intend to play an epic and the last game you started was a conquest or a mod with non-default victory conditions, you need to click default victory conditions, or else the same victory conditions from the last one will apply.

quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th For my last 7 games, I started with the Incas and Mayans near me. I was about to start breaking things. Then I realized that someone had changed the settings in one of the .savs I downloaded...

	18-04-2005 19:12									#13
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Koreans, but that's only on my testing scenario where I test everything first.

	20-04-2005 08:28									#14
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Inca.

Bleech. Pass the radioactive sludge.

	20-04-2005 08:30									#15
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The expansionist trait is kind of wasted, but I don't look down on any Ag civ.

	20-04-2005 08:32									#16
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The UU sucks too.

	20-04-2005 08:41									#17
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Yeah, the UU is wasted and that's why the Expansionist trait is wasted. Two birds with one stone, I guess.

But, Agr! Surely some radioactive mouthwash isn't worth avoiding that.

	20-04-2005 18:34									#18
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Actually the Incans are a very good civ IF you know how to play them properly and also aren't on Archepello.

Everything about the Incans are designed to spring out of the starting gate. Weather you trip and fall or cement this lead into a permenant state of affairs is up to the player. I'd sugest triguring the GA via wonder combo. The Chican Scout has a chance of survivng being attacked by some barbs from a barb camp and a non-expansionst civ poping a goody hut and getting barbs as well.

On the Koreans, they are just Greece minus Hoplites but effectively with artillery adviable with Metalurgy at the same price as cannons. Trigure the GA via wonder combo. Those that don't use artillery type units as part of their offenses won't apprecate the Koreans nearly as much as those who do.

	21-04-2005 00:27									#19
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the problem is, I usually wait till artillery to do major assaults. I rarely use cannons anyways. How do the Korean UU compare to artillery?

	21-04-2005 00:53									#20
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Korean UU is nowhere near as good as artillery, what with Artillery's bettered range and RoF.

If you wait for artillery, I'd think the way to go is build lots of the Korean cannon before getting that tech, then build more artillery. Use the arty to bombard units down to 1 HP and then take them out with the H'wachas or however they're spelled.

	22-04-2005 05:34									#21
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Definitely Portugal. Worst trait synergy and an annoying UU.

	22-04-2005 08:00									#22
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I had forgotten Portugal. Expansionist and Seafaring are definitely ill-matched.

	22-04-2005 19:15									#23
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On the contrary, they balance each other almost perfectly.

Expanionstic : Best on Archepello maps

Seafaring : Best on Pangena maps

This balances out map affects.

Expanionstic is a front-loaded tech, seafaring includes a commerce bonus for coastal cities that keeps improving as time goes on.

Plus their UU the Carrack is a Caravel with no risk of sinking in ocean.

Between the Expansionstic, Seafaring, and Carrack, a human playing the Protguese out to be the first with contacts to all civs in any game. This is a huge edge on technology trades, and later map and contact trades.

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I had forgotten Portugal. Expansionist and Seafaring are definitely ill-matched.

	22-04-2005 22:33									#24
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I like the portugese. Very powerful in PBEMs...

	23-04-2005 00:40									#25
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn On the contrary, they balance each other almost perfectly. Expanionstic : Best on Archepello maps Seafaring : Best on Pangena maps This balances out map affects. Expanionstic is a front-loaded tech, seafaring includes a commerce bonus for coastal cities that keeps improving as time goes on. Plus their UU the Carrack is a Caravel with no risk of sinking in ocean. Between the Expansionstic, Seafaring, and Carrack, a human playing the Protguese out to be the first with contacts to all civs in any game. This is a huge edge on technology trades, and later map and contact trades.

I think you meant expansionistic good on Pangea maps, and seafaring good on archipelago maps.

But you still run into problems where you are only effectively taking advantage of 1 of those 2 traits.

	23-04-2005 00:53									#26
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Anything with a militaristic/seafaring/exploration trait. I am a builder, and those seems to me of little worth.

	23-04-2005 01:08									#27
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when expansonist nets you a free settler, you should stop complaining. It can also get you contacts earlier, placing you at an advatage wrt techs, as the more contacts you hve the cheaper research is.

	23-04-2005 02:16									#28
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No, I meant that expansionistic is the second best traight on a random map that's known to be of Pangena map on turn 1 and that seafaring is the second best traight on a random map that's known to be Archpielago on turn 1. (Agricultural is always best)

On a Pangena, both traights are still used, if nothing else, the seafaring will be useful for commerce bonus. And there may evenually be a need for ships. There's also probably some city sites that need a Harbor for food purposes and the 1/2 price for harbor will help there.

On a Archepello, the expanionstic traight is still used whenever you build a scout and pop a goody hut. It's just that the goody huts are on multiple landmasses so seafarings +1 movement will help you reach them faster.

On a known Contential and also a random style map, both seafaring and expanionstic traights will be used quickly. (Starting scout exploring interor of same land mass while a curragh built to explore the coast and look for other landmasses)

I do note that all seafaring civs fair better in the hands of humans than the AIs because the human will risk sinking and the AI never will.

Protogal is actually an extremely popular choice for MP epic games with random maps. (And so is the Dutch and then the rest of the seafaring civs)

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I think you meant expansionistic good on Pangea maps, and seafaring good on archipelago maps. But you still run into problems where you are only effectively taking advantage of 1 of those 2 traits.

	23-04-2005 02:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai Anything with a militaristic/seafaring/exploration trait. I am a builder, and those seems to me of little worth.

Ok, Military without being seafaring gives builders half price harbors and nothing else, not all that great.

As to seafaring and expansionstic traights though, those are very good for builders!

Seafaring : locate the best islands quickly. Settle that island with a resource / luxary not found on the main land quickly!
CONTACTS! Commerce bonus on all coastal cities.

Expanionstic: locate the best land on your land mass quickly. good chance of a free settler! CONTACTS! no-barbs from huts

The more contacts you have, the faster you can effectively research.

	23-04-2005 02:24									#30
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Bottom line, there is no civ in conquests that is so terriable that you can't beat the AI. There are just some civs that are mismatched with some play styles.