21-04-2005 11:30									#151
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Whatever happened to personal responsibility ? I thought conservatives like you were big on that ?

I'm not sure why you take me for a Libertarian. I would say that responsibility isn't simply an onus on the consumer. Maybe broadcasters should demonstrate some.

	21-04-2005 11:34									#152
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Dude, keep you gaskets intact. My nephews were not here. However, there are many 12, 13, 14 year olds up at 11pm watching TV. So? If they are dropping out of school to work at McJobs, it's their problem. The government has to help people out as much as is reasonable, but it is not reasonable for everyone to cater to the needs of these peculiar, hypothetical poor people who drop out of school instead of getting a high school education. People who are old and mature enough to assume certain rights are old and mature enough to deal with philosophical questions raised by the need to work in coal mines. And if they aren't, they can damn well mature quickly enough to deal with those questions. Stop coddling teens.

	21-04-2005 11:45									#153
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Odin If you don't want your kids watching something it is YOUR responsibility to make sure they don't watch it. If you don't want the responsibility you shouldn't of had kids in the first place. They are YOUR kids, they are YOUR responsibility, not the government's responsibility.

I also don't want someone else's kids blowing mine away in a fit of pique.

Excuse me, but I insist that YOUR kids are MY business.

It's called community standards. Do try to keep up.

	21-04-2005 12:26									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ah, "community standards"... code words for let me impose my morality upon you.

	21-04-2005 12:28									#155
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, it's such a ***** not being able to show R rated in place of Saturday afternoon cartoons.

*sigh*

	21-04-2005 12:34									#156
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It is when the government mandates it. Hell, on 'basic cable', I'm sure you'll find highly violent movies on Saturday afternoons. Hell, I know I've seen "Die Hard" on USA or FX on Saturday afternoons.

	21-04-2005 12:35									#157
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither That's why I say bigot. People are attempting to impose their beliefs or dogma on both civil and other religious societies.

I agree. Bigots...

	21-04-2005 12:43									#158
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It is when the government mandates it. Hell, on 'basic cable', I'm sure you'll find highly violent movies on Saturday afternoons. Hell, I know I've seen "Die Hard" on USA or FX on Saturday afternoons.

Who else mandates standards other than governments?

You would rather there be no minimum age for work laws?

What else do you want the government out of?

	21-04-2005 12:49									#159
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Who else mandates standards other than governments? You would rather there be no minimum age for work laws? What else do you want the government out of?

A. Equating what's on TV with minimum age for work laws shows how out of the loop you are. It's like comparing Isreali actions in Palestine with the Nazis before the Final Solution. Total lack of perspective.

B. Minimum age work laws are an anachronism. It was put in place in an era were the kids were going in the factories and getting maimed. Now, what is so wrong with a 15 year old working in a department store if he wants extra money?!

	21-04-2005 12:54									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ah, inappropriate for the debate, but you couldn't resist.

Back to the coal mines with them!

	21-04-2005 12:59									#161
	Increase Your PM Length

It's going off on a tangent, but if the children are old enough to make an informed decision and are actually making that decision (not the parents forcing them)... then why not?

If you want, you can go into it with Ozzy how minimum age work laws hurt teens... but it has no relevance to what content is on TV, as you pay for the cable and you can always turn the TV off.

	21-04-2005 13:08									#162
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, yes, I would guess that Ozzy would kick up a fuss on issues like they are too young to be responsible enough to make decisions about drinking, voting, etc.

So, if you don't buy into his adult by 12 argument, why would you think that adolescents are prepared to make mature judgements about the carnage to which they are daily treated as spectacles on our nations' networks?

If xxx is inappropriate at noon on Sunday on CTV, CBS, or PBS then there is some minimum standard, yes? If so, we are arguing about where to draw the line.

	21-04-2005 13:14									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: So, if you don't buy into his adult by 12 argument, why would you think that adolescents are prepared to make mature judgements about the carnage to which they are daily treated as spectacles on our nations' networks?

I don't think adolescents are paying for cable, are they? That's where the 'mature judgement' comes in. If the parents are paying for cable, they are paying for what comes with it. If they object to some of the shows on cable, then there is always the V-Chip. Don't complain to the government if children are watching a show you don't approve on something you paid for!

If you are really offended, stage a protest or something. Petition your cable station to drop them. March in front of the company's HQ. Don't whine to the government to engage in censorship.

The internet analogy someone made was good. You don't ask the government to censor the internet... you get a web filter or restrict your children's access.

quote: If xxx is inappropriate at noon on Sunday on CTV or CBS, then there is some minimum standard, yes? If so, we are arguing about where to draw the line.

Some may say so, but I really don't care. Cable in the US actually has NO FCC standards on them... they don't put nudity and cursing on during day hours because they want maximum ratings. I say let the private companies do what they think makes most business sense.

	21-04-2005 13:18									#164
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No FCC standards? You poor fools you.

	21-04-2005 14:14									#165
	Increase the size of your Attachments

11pm on cable TV?

Channel Four showed "Angels in America" in the UK at 10pm on public broadcast TV. They used to pub "Sex and the City", with its graphic depictions of heterosexual sex, on at 9pm. Channel Five used to basically be publically broadcasted porn until it tried to go respectable.

And gotta love the BBC's production of "Tipping the Velvet", the best Victorian era lesbian drama, featuring leather strap on dildos, ever produced for the 11pm slot. Paid for by the taxpayers of the UK

	21-04-2005 19:11									#166
	Increase Your PM Length

Shame on you, nye.

	21-04-2005 19:26									#167
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

NYE, how is watching dramatized unsafe sex in any way comparable with child labour?

	21-04-2005 20:26									#168
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It was funnier than hell.

Hell is funny?!?

Geez, **** paradis then!!

	21-04-2005 21:31									#169
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Yeah, it's such a ***** not being able to show R rated in place of Saturday afternoon cartoons. *sigh*

If Saturday afternoon cartoons are being shown at 11pm, I'd say that either you're in the wrong time zone, or the broadcaster is.

The issue, as I understand it, is this:

Is it perfectly all right for a privately funded television show on a privately funded network whose availibility is on a paid service that is not by default availible to the public to, at a reasonable hour, as in, after most people have either headed towards bed or are soon going to, to show a television adaptation of a fairly renowned play with explicit homosexual themes?

I say yes, because it's a privately funded television show on a privately funded network whose availibility is on a paid service that is not by default availible to the public to, at a reasonable hour, as in, after most people have either headed towards bed or are soon going to be in bed.

	23-04-2005 14:57									#170
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm not sure why you take me for a Libertarian. I would say that responsibility isn't simply an onus on the consumer. Maybe broadcasters should demonstrate some.

I take you for a conservative- you have after all appeared just like a conservative in your posts.


Are you saying you were possessed, or speaking in tongues ?


Do you approve of provincial television censors placed in all homes with cable or satellite so they can monitor just who and who isn't up at 23.00 hours and watching what they 'SHOULDN'T' be watching ?


Books are even more subversive- I'm told some local authorities and state/provincial governments have books on open shelves where people can read them- in the daytime !


O Canada, O tempora, O mores....

	24-04-2005 08:40									#171
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Actually, I'm an old time Tory. You know, social responsibility and all that crap.

And no, I'm not in favour of a return of the provincial censorship boards. I would, however, like our broadcasters to manage themselves so that management of them never becomes something that is considered desirable by any reasonable segment of the population.

	24-04-2005 08:44									#172
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Oh, and O Getoveryerself.

	24-04-2005 09:17									#173
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Okay, let's get one thing really clear:

Nobody could watch all of "Angels in America" and get the idea that having sex w/o condoms is cool or wonderful or anything like that. Holy hell, the entire point of the story is the horrors of the AIDS epidemic. Taking that scene out of context is stupid, because it's about how a guy frickin' DOESN'T want to have sex without a condom.

I don't see any way that a 12-year old is going to be harmed by watching the movie. On the contrary, it's quite an eye-opening look into the consequences of engaging in unsafe behavior. Roy Cohn's death ain't pretty, and I doubt anyone would want to suffer the indignities he goes through in his final days.

	24-04-2005 09:26									#174
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Actually, Boris. I tuned in not knowing what it was about. I saw the trailer and it seemed like it might be interesting, but I missed the first part then came in late on the second. The scene I described was in the first five minutes of what I saw.

At any rate, the OP could as easily be based on some of the scenes from The Sopranos.

	24-04-2005 09:31									#175
	Support Apolyton

The only thing that's going to harm a 12-year-old by watching the Sopranos is that they might be bored to tears.

	24-04-2005 09:34									#176
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Or they see how the 'good guy' eliminates his problems with a hand gun.

	24-04-2005 09:37									#177
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Nothing in the Sopranos has ever indicated to me that Tony Soprano is a 'good guy' or that he is desirable to emulate. He's a ****ed up *******.

Better not show kids Othello, lest they think it's cool to strangle one's wife.

	24-04-2005 09:40									#178
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm sure that 100% of 13 year olds could readily identify that the guy with the big house, nice cars, pretty wife, and prettier concubines is not a person to emulate.

	24-04-2005 09:45									#179
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Incidently, The Sopranos was a much bigger case of irresponsibility on the part of a broadcaster.

CBC had the Olympics for the 14th time in a row, or so. CTV got the bright idea of buying the Sopranos first season to air opposite, in prime time, over the airwaves.

	24-04-2005 09:45									#180
	Support Apolyton

He's the guy who is crying to his shrink, in a ****ed up marriage, and has loads of bad **** happen to him. There are plenty of consequences for his actions.

Seriously, what's your point? I can see WW2 movies on network TV wherein it's celebrated to shoot people in certain uniforms. But a show depicts a modern mobster semi-realistically, and it's the end of civilization? I'd like to give our TV-viewing youth a bit more credit than that.