19-04-2005 23:28									#61
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Ratzinger was an architect of Vatican II, and is recognized as one of the formost minds in the Church. This is exactly the kind of man who should be Pope.

I hope for the best.

	19-04-2005 23:29									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I don't mind any fvcking about the church or anything I'm not one of the lot, but I feel slightly offended by some people's reaction, how anything German with power is automatically Nazi. there've been Germans in the IWF etc, were they all nazis to you? but then they had a lot less press than this guy

Don't you understand? Every young German during the 30ies and 40ies was very happy to take part to the HJ and to whip Jews. If somebody didn't actively resist, and gave in to the various pressures, it MUST mean they were -and still are- a nazi monster

	19-04-2005 23:30									#63
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quote: Isn't that like asking what's wrong with Jack the Ripper other than him being a murderer?

Last time I checked, there's nothing wrong with being a conservative Catholic, except for the fact that it might push the Church towards irrelevance.

I ask you again, what's wrong with Ratzinger, outside of being a superconservative?

	19-04-2005 23:32									#64
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I read Ratzinger had good chances because he's old, so he'd be only a pope of "transition". Question is what kind of transition there will be....

	19-04-2005 23:34									#65
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Btw, when do they start the orgies?

	19-04-2005 23:35									#66
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I saw a catholic fella explaining how hundreds of years ago a catholic prophet had listed atributes of all the popes right to the end of the world. Attributes that could be matched with the popes that followed historicly. Anyway, there was only one more before the one that's alive when the end times, wrath of God, plague on the nations stuff starts.

I was kinda hoping for a younger pope myself.

	19-04-2005 23:37									#67
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quote: Last time I checked, there's nothing wrong with being a conservative Catholic

Check again.

	19-04-2005 23:38									#68
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End times.

'Cause if you can't laugh at the end times, what can you laugh at?

	19-04-2005 23:40									#69
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quote: Check again.

And with that dogmatic answer, you've just consigned yourself to irrelevance on this topic.

Please, Agathon, don't make the same mistake you've done on the topic of Microsoft and Windows here.

	19-04-2005 23:59									#70
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We seem to have a second pope who early years were spent under Nazi rule. The Nazi's apparently had a profound effect on Ratzinger:

"As a seminarian, he was briefly enrolled in the Hitler Youth in the early 1940s, though he was never a member of the Nazi party. In 1943 he was conscripted into an antiaircraft unit guarding a BMW plant outside Munich. Later Ratzinger was sent to Austria's border with Hungary to erect tank traps. After being shipped back to Bavaria, he deserted. When the war ended, he was an American prisoner of war.


Under Hitler, Ratzinger says he watched the Nazis twist and distort the truth. Their lies about Jews, about genetics, were more than academic exercises. People died by the millions because of them. The church's service to society, Ratzinger concluded, is to stand for absolute truths that function as boundary markers: Move about within these limits, but outside them lies disaster.


Later reflection on the Nazi experience also left Ratzinger with a conviction that theology must either bind itself to the church, with its creed and teaching authority, or it becomes the plaything of outside forces -- the state in a totalitarian system or secular culture in Western liberal democracies. In a widely noted 1986 lecture in Toronto, Ratzinger put it this way: "A church without theology impoverishes and blinds, while a churchless theology melts away into caprice."

"The Vatican's Enforcer", National Catholic Reporter, April 16, 1999.
http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/a...699/041699a.htm

	19-04-2005 23:59									#71
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Let's see how he does... personally I have little faith that the church will become some instution that I'd consider proud to be part of.

	20-04-2005 00:08									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Nope, whipping Jews. Well who hasn't wanted to whip Azazel from time to time.

You're all talk, Aggie.

quote: Adolph I

	20-04-2005 00:22									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion first German in about 500 years.

No, for over 900. The one You mean was Dutch, not German.

quote: Originally posted by JohnT With the news of the new Pope, his name could only be: Pope Ratzi the Nazi I

Yeah, all the Germans are nazis and saying stuff like that is so funny.

	20-04-2005 00:22									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion there've been Germans in the IWF etc, were they all nazis to you?

The International Wildlife Fund? Or maybe Ignorant White Folks? Seriously, I have no idea what IWF stands for.

	20-04-2005 00:22									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon He's the worst choice they could have made.

Hearing it from You...

	20-04-2005 00:26									#76
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Well, I'm not exactly thrilled about the choice of Ratzinger, but that's more because I'm not a great fan of conservative Catholicism. I lean moderate here, too, but I'm afraid that conservatism might push the Church towards irrelevance.

On the other hand, liberalism would dilute the Church's message so much that it would be indistinguishable from white noise.

	20-04-2005 00:44									#77
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All I have to say is just quote what GSquid said regarding the new pope:

quote: Bah...the two insults people use on the Internet these days is that someone's from the Inquisition and someone's a Nazi, and here we have a real live Inquisitor and people are taking the Nazi route anyway? Think before you speak, people!

	20-04-2005 00:47									#78
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I find it amuzing that any German who was forced into the Hitler Youth and the German Army, but who was not a member of the Nazi party, and who deserted, is now labelled a Nazi by people who oppose him for one reason or another. He had first hand experience of Nazi Germany. This did shape his views, but in a harshly anti-Nazi way.

	20-04-2005 00:50									#79
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The last German Pope was Adrian VI, who was elected in 1522 and died in 1523

	20-04-2005 00:50									#80
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Yeah, but "Nazi" and "Ratzi" rhyme! Ratzi the Torquemada doesn't quite have that ring to it.

	20-04-2005 00:52									#81
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Uninspired choice, but not surprising, given that all but 3 of the cardinals voting were appointed by JPII. Naturally they'd be more inclined to support his papal pitbull.

	20-04-2005 00:53									#82
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous The last German Pope was Adrian VI, who was elected in 1522 and died in 1523

He was Dutch, not German.

	20-04-2005 00:59									#83
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Dutch... German. It’s the same thing except for the wooden shoes and windmills. Germans hate those.

	20-04-2005 01:12									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: Isn't that like asking what's wrong with Jack the Ripper other than him being a murderer? Last time I checked, there's nothing wrong with being a conservative Catholic, except for the fact that it might push the Church towards irrelevance.

Isn't that something wrong with the choice? It needs a dynamic figure to prevent the slide down the path of irrelevance, not someone who will speed it up.

It also would be nice to get a Pope who would end the silly ban on women becoming priests.

	20-04-2005 01:14									#85
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quote: Dutch... German. It's the same thing except for the wooden shoes and windmills. Germans hate those.

Oh man... them's fighting words.

	20-04-2005 01:16									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Isn't that something wrong with the Church?

Hey dude, Do you have any idea how much work and planning that took me!! Leave it out, will ya!!

quote: It also would be nice to get a Pope who would end the silly ban on women becoming priests.

The church supporting sex-change operations.

	20-04-2005 01:19									#87
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quote: You're all talk, Aggie.

That makes it sound like you want to be whipped. Are you a masochist? Eww.

I wish I'd never made that joke.

	20-04-2005 01:22									#88
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I wish Iggy Pop had been made the Pope. He's already the Pope of Punk.

	20-04-2005 01:23									#89
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Cliff Clavin for pope.

	20-04-2005 01:23									#90
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I for one wishes Benedict all good and hope he'll be a good pope as long as he lasts. He sure has the mental capacity, but I've heard he lacks on the charisma side.