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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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OFFICIAL GLORY OF WAR STATEMENT
When the current war between ND and Spain (later GS) began, GoW adopted the official "neutrality whore" foreign policy, quietly hoping ND and GS would beat each other so badly that we could pick up their respective rotten carcasses and win the game. Both teams seemed content with just nominal attacks on each other, both hoping that nuclear weapons would change all that and deal the decisive blow. With GS's aquisition of Uranium, it meant that come nukes, each of the three superpowers would have the capacity to blow at least one of the other apart.
GoW's foreign policy from the start of this game has been simple: not get our ass whooped. If that involved whooping someone else's ass to ensure that ours would survive, so be it. In the 3-nation runoff before the Bobian war, it mattered not ultimately who was going to ally with whom, what matter was that WE were not going to be the ones getting gangbanged. A similar situation has developed now, and with 3 dominant teams, it is only natural that two of them join forces against the other one as neither has the power to destroy the other two on its own. And as the neutrality whores that we are, we choose the highest bidder.
The highest bidder - in fact the only bidder - has been Neu Demogyptica. Thus, the Glory of War has the uneasy duty of declaring that a state of war now exists between our empire and the alliance composed of The Gathering Storm and Spain. There will be no nasty manifestos, no insults, no attacks. There is nothing personal either. Both GS and RP have been honorable in both war and peace. As for GoW, it is not for ourselves to decide what our legacy will be. Dirty rotten backstabbers? Perhaps, and maybe well deserved. Cunning opportunists? I'd like to hope. Whatever the case, each of the seven teams which started this game over two years ago had a single objective: to win, though the paths to victory would be different for each. Therefore our cards are on the table. If we win, we will win though the blood and sweat of battle, because we are the Glory of War. If we lose, there will be no more worthy victor in our eyes than the one who smites us down.
The reasons for us choosing ND as our finally ally are various.
1 - GS never asked us formally to ally with them against ND and I don't understand why, as the worst case scenario would have been a simple "no". Remember, we are neutrality whores. When you see a whore on the street, particulary one who has nuclear weapons under their fishnet stockings, you at least ask her what's her price, or else you run the risk of dying a virgin. 
2 - Roleplay has been rather frustrated at the game after ND's attack on their colonies. They think it's something personal and that everyone hates them bla bla bla. Therefore we have decided to help them by invading New Spain and leaving them a stranded on a settler-transport somewhere in the wild blue yonder. Forgive me Togas, I honestly thought that Spain would be destroyed when our tanks rolled into San Antonio. It would have saved you a lot of frustration. But you had a settler so don't blame me. Also you were just asking for it. I mean, just one Mech Inf in Santa Barbara? 
3 - A long time ago we vowed to ourselves to avenge Vox's defeat in their war against GS. See, Vox had that kinda something that neither Spain nor Lego had in defeat. It wasn't pity, it wasn't compasion, it was laughter. You made us laugh in your cockyness, you made us laugh is your tragedy. You became that team that we knew would never betray us, not even when the survival of your protector was at stake. You know what would have happened had Voxian troops attacked ours at Stanwix? We would have lost that war. We are eternaly grateful and pledge to return your homeland as soon as possible. Just forgive us though if the radiation at Elipolis makes it a bit uninhabitable for the next, oh, 500 years or so. 
4 - Ah yes, the Bobian War. The mother of all wars. Sure, we won, but it was fought entirely on Bobian soil since once our Riders had chased GS's knights to the sea like Ramses chased Moses, we encountered a little teeny weeny problem. We had no navy. So, no way to continue fighting on Stormian soil. Well, think of this now as your "home game". Same teams. New weapons. The Bobian war left a third of the continent in smoldering ruins, not that we cared since that that third happened to be Roleplay's part, but still, consider this The Bobian War II: The Empire Strikes Stormia. Coming soon to a reality TV show near you. 
So, those are the reasons. They may have been a bit on the sarcastic side but below the surfice lies the truth, our truth. May the best team(s) win.
-MZ
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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Alright, I have to say something.
First of all, speeking for myself alone, I do not like this whole shared victory thing. I do think it is a rather cheep way out.
I have spoken quite vocally more than once within the GoW forum that we should be done with the yellow plague. Going back to before the Lego campaign. Basically, them refusing to assist, I considered too great a threat to leave on Bob while doing a naval invasion.
I fully supported a plan to ally with ND and kill off GS after Lego, though. For many reasons, but most prominently because it has always bugged me how we really fubared that whole landing 2 ponies bullsh!t, and I thought we owed Vox the Stormian island.
With that said, though, I am not the one playing the game. An interesting part of the team dynamic, I don't have the time to take over, and I have no real right to tell MZ that he has to continue playing. Turns take several hours now. A massive war with ND would prolong that.
With that understanding, if the only two teams with a chance of winning left in the game decide to call it a draw, I'll live with that. I am not in a position to tell the teams or the turn players that they must continue for months spending hours per turn to trigger an IN GAME victory.
I don't have to like it, I wish we would fight to declare a victor, but I fully understand it, and support the decision.
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I have spoken quite vocally more than once within the GoW forum that we should be done with the yellow plague. Going back to before the Lego campaign. Basically, them refusing to assist, I considered too great a threat to leave on Bob while doing a naval invasion.
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For the record and to set things straight, ND never said that they wouldn't help us out with lego. The problem with ND was that they were only finishing industrializing while we were already mobilizing our shiny new tanks and destroyers. ND did pledge support but only various turns later. Had we not gotten lucky with Lego we might have seen an ND landing a few turns later.
Regarding an invasion of ND before the Lego war, it could have happened as we were more powerful than them and would likely have been succcessful even without a RoP rape. However, a GoW takeover would have likely changed the entire strategic outlook of the game. Lego would no longer have been the prime threat, it would be GoW and I do not find it inconceivable that GS and Lego would have arranged a hastingly-prepared invasion plan against US. Given all the territory we would have had to defend, it would have been impossible to successfully hold on to Bob even if just one of the two invaded.
This was the main reason why we made the pact to win the game together with ND. It was ND's guarantee that we wouldn't attack them instead of Lego, and it was our guarantee that ND wouldn't march north when our army was in Lego. I recall from the start saying that geopolitics dictated that GoW had no chance in hell of winning this game alone, only GS and Lego would have the honor of that. In my mind therefore it became a question of sharing our victory (which would be somewhat of a poetic justice since we never really accomplished militariliy anything alone) or having no victory at all. I chose the first.
Last but not least, a GoW vs ND war at this stage would not really "prove" who is the better team. Even without a RoP rape, the issue pretty much reduces itself to dropping a few nukes on the border cities and swarming to conquer the rest. The winner would not be decided on skill but on who struck first. Neither of us would survive a first strike of the other. Call it a twisted version of détente.
And to those who say a shared victory is cheesy, well, in demo games we frequently do things which are impossible in SP. Multiple-team exchanges, artillery trading, even city trading, info sharing etc. Why is sharing victory any different? There's no rule that says it can't be done. There's also no rule that says a game can't be over without an in-game victory. Both the PTW and C3C ISDG ended without an in-game victory being met. No one complained so why are they complaining now?
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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I'm not going to bicker with you out here.
You have presented this to other teams as if it were a unanimous decision by the entire team. It was not.
You state correctly that
Yes, you did. And yes, I'll support your decision because that is how our team functioned. That does not mean that I liked it or agreed with it. I attempted to voice such at times, but was quickly shot down by you and others, being told that it was ok and this or that would happen. Some was do to my ignorance in what was going on, afterall, I couldn't make the ND chats and you can only gain so much from a synopsis. And some was due to my desire to stick far stricter to the ideals we were founded on. I had no time to really put much effort into changing things, however, and so I will support it. It don't mean I like it.
Overall, we beat the builders, we kept the promise, if belated, to Vox. We survived a start with no Iron. I am quite pleased with all of that.
As for the ISDG's, well, I was never a part of them and cannot comment.
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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Another issue which I forgot to mention was economic. Assuming a GoW takeover of ND that would pretty much render much of the Bobian continent economically worthless due to corruption and possible ND city razings. Yet turning into the prime threat we'd have to deal with Lego and GS with an economy only marginally superior to that of Lego's (1/4-1/3 more at the most), and a scientific capacity still inferior to that of GS which means in the tech race, we'd get swamped. We wouldn't be remembering the nukings of Elipolis and Monsoon, we'd be remembering Yellowknife and Port Isolation. How could we be pursuing our victory objectives with the odds so stacked against us?
On the other hand, allying with ND means we can pursue a shared victory objective (taking out Lego and GS) with twice the economic capacity of our nation alone and with a scientific power to match or exceed GS. Moreso, being that neither GoW or ND alone appeared as a threat we could affort to take out our rivals one after the other. I don't know if people have stopped to notice just how simple GoW's strategy of world conquest ever since the Bobian War was. It involved identifying the most immediate threat (GS/RP then Lego), convincing everyone else about that threat, eliminating that threat, identifying a new one, convincing everonye else about the new one, etc etc etc.
This would not have worked if we were the threat, since that same strategy would have been likely used against us. So that, my friends, is why we chose the route we chose. Not everyone in my team agreed but I believed it was the best strategy we could hope for, and since no-one stepped up to overthrow me... 
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:34
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Yes, the hippie builder phase after it had became abundantly clear that anything I said would have little to no impact. I believe I even said that if you ever decided to go to war PM me so I might get interested again.
I admit I was not around at that point much if at all. Were it not for sheer boredom over Xmas vacation, I probably would have never come back to this game. This is why I have said I support the decision at all. You made it according to how the team opperated, and I cannot take that away.
Even had I been around to post, as you say, you had majority anyway. It would have done nothing. I didn't read the thing till it was already in place. There was no point in arguing it at that point. However, I don't wish to be lumped in with the decision by association that it was a 'unanimous team decision'. It was a team decision, yes.
If you go back and read, I asked to attack ND when they were dragging their feet on giving us the agreed to cities post RP. And again when they refused to help, or at least wanted to delay that help, with reguards to Lego. My position has never changed, and I did speak up. It just fell on deaf ears. And, as such, my interest waned. I think that is a natural reaction, frankly.
I came back to write nice little stories and songs now that you stopped being a little buildering sissy and decided to bonk some heads.
That's what I do best anyway.
Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 18-05-2005 at 22:27
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