21-04-2005 07:20									#1
	Yang and efficiency penalties? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hi, I've played SMAC/SMAX for some years now, but have never really played as Yang until the other night. When I did I noticed that I am not appearing to have the negative efficiency penalties for Police State or Planned economy. It's early in the game, but with the +ve's of those 2 with still 0 efficiency this are going pretty well. Does anyone know if this is a poorly documented feature (similiar to the cybernetic not getting -ve traits for the cybernetic future society) or a bug. I'm playing SMAX btw.

Cheers

	21-04-2005 08:12									#2
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In SMAX (and in SMAC v2.0 and later) the Hive doesn't receive negative efficiency penalties, as you observed.

This feature is documented in the readme.txt file:

The Hive now has the "Immunity, EFFIC" ability; Hive never receives negative EFFICIENCY penalties.

This feature also is described on page 38 of the SMAX manual.

	21-04-2005 08:34									#3
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Thanks for that, I've never actually read the print manual for either game, it just didn't show up in the faction profile in the datalinks so it surprised me. It makes sense though, kinda like the flat efficiency in communism in the Civ games (well not really like that but you know).

	21-04-2005 11:55									#4
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I enjoy playing the Hive, it's a lot different than the builder factions I tend to prefer and at the same time a very strong builder faction itself.

	21-04-2005 19:41									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Petek In SMAX (and in SMAC v2.0 and later) the Hive doesn't receive negative efficiency penalties, as you observed. This feature is documented in the readme.txt file: The Hive now has the "Immunity, EFFIC" ability; Hive never receives negative EFFICIENCY penalties. This feature also is described on page 38 of the SMAX manual.

This is why a true punishing test is to play the Hive with unpatched SMAC -- That high innefficiency really adds to the challenge

	22-04-2005 02:57									#6
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Actually I think it was changed in the 4.0 patch...not that it matters, but it made the Hive extrememly powerful even on the original SMAC....

	22-04-2005 20:12									#7
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Hive immunity to efficentency problems was because prior to that the Hives were really bad in the hands of the AI

Even with it, the AI is still much better at the Belivers and Gaia than Morgon. (AI is much better at implementing "Growth" / "Explore" than Build)

In fact an easy way to improve AI performance of most factions is to add Growth to there list of priorities.

	23-04-2005 00:21									#8
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I should add growth to Morgan's priorities. as a business he should want to expand. building up internal business infrastructure is important as well. Just once, I'd like to see Morgan be a powerhouse in my games.

	23-04-2005 01:00									#9
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Even when he is in some of my games he's so bad in a fight that Hive / Believer / Drone with crappy tech and less bases just runs rampant over him and once the numbers spill into his territory he's just plain hopeless.

	23-04-2005 01:18									#10
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Actually, THREE times in a row, Morgan was the most powerful of the AI...never been since that time, but still, don't underestimate Morgan...given the land and the time, he can kill...

	24-04-2005 03:06									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber This is why a true punishing test is to play the Hive with unpatched SMAC -- That high innefficiency really adds to the challenge

Believe it or not, I played like this farrrr after the patch came out. Shoot I didn't even know the patch existed for some time.

Running Knowledge and Green kind of helped me out.

	27-04-2005 18:15									#12
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Yes, I remember, back in my virginal days before SMAC addiction, loading up a saved game and then spending the best part of half an hour coordinating my bases so the efficiency hit wasn't tooooooo bad... back in 1998 *sniff*

	27-04-2005 18:57									#13
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quote: Running Knowledge and Green kind of helped me out.

You heretic! Green and Knowledge for Yang?!? It's an insult to the mighty Human Hive!


Seriously I've been thinking (back in the days of early SMAC) why to play Hive at all knowing that it's doomed to have low effic.
It was kinda weakest faction then..
At least I always ended up Hive AI being big in territory but in medieval tech level.

	28-04-2005 00:50									#14
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I don't know what you all are talking about. Far as I remember, the Hive was always a strong faction.

	28-04-2005 07:41									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia Yes, I remember, back in my virginal days before SMAC addiction, loading up a saved game and then spending the best part of half an hour coordinating my bases so the efficiency hit wasn't tooooooo bad... back in 1998 *sniff*

didn't smac come out in 1999?

	28-04-2005 17:27									#16
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IIRC, the demo was out in 1998, could play 100 turns...
I think the game was release in Early 1999, missed getting it out for Christmas '98.

	28-04-2005 17:37									#17
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quote: could play 100 turns...

Not so much IIRC

	28-04-2005 17:44									#18
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I recall reading it being very quickly hexedited to be a very high turn limit.

	28-04-2005 20:25									#19
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Yes, but it only let researchs tech up to L5