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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Admiral
You forget. The Second Spanish Republic was the communists. |
Completely wrong.
In the Spanish Republic, such different - and very often hostile - movements as "Left Republicans" (i.e. burgeois liberals), Socialists ("Right Socialists" tending towards Communism and "Left Socialists" tending towards anarchists and others), Communists (actually stalinists, heavily opposed up to civil war within the civil war by other republican groups, 100% anti-revolutionary, pro-private property and enterprise...), "Trotzkiites" (who actually were revolutionary marxists but no proper Trotzkiites only were called such and "Franco's agents" by the Communists), Anarchosyndicalists and proper Anarchists. Then there were regional movements and particularities like conservative basque forces, Catalonian nationalists etc. etc.
Lamentably, however, the Spanish CP achieved more and more control over the republic by replacing most military officers with loyal stalinists, terrorizing opposition through smear campaigns, censorship and Tshekas. The early republican governments were "too nice" to act against this tendency, prime minister Negrín was mainly a stalinist pawn.
But "the Republic" was certainly not "the communists", the latter used the war to gain influence in Spain where before Franco's uprising the Communists had no significant position.
You probably don't care, but you should read George Orwell "My Catalonia"
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Admiral
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of the peace and coexistance movement
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Completely wrong.
In the Spanish Republic, such different - and very often hostile - movements as "Left Republicans" (i.e. burgeois liberals), Socialists ("Right Socialists" tending towards Communism and "Left Socialists" tending towards anarchists and others), Communists (actually stalinists, heavily opposed up to civil war within the civil war by other republican groups, 100% anti-revolutionary, pro-private property and enterprise...), "Trotzkiites" (who actually were revolutionary marxists but no proper Trotzkiites only were called such and "Franco's agents" by the Communists), Anarchosyndicalists and proper Anarchists. Then there were regional movements and particularities like conservative basque forces, Catalonian nationalists etc. etc.
Lamentably, however, the Spanish CP achieved more and more control over the republic by replacing most military officers with loyal stalinists, terrorizing opposition through smear campaigns, censorship and Tshekas. The early republican governments were "too nice" to act against this tendency, prime minister Negrín was mainly a stalinist pawn.
But "the Republic" was certainly not "the communists", the latter used the war to gain influence in Spain where before Franco's uprising the Communists had no significant position.
You probably don't care, but you should read George Orwell "My Catalonia" |
I may be wrong, but wasn't much of the communist influence due to the fact that, during the war, the great majority of outside aide came from the USSR? Given that while unofficial aide arrived from Britain, France, and the US (and, undercover, the Nazis), the one official sponsor was the USSR, it makes sense that they, over the course of the conflict, would turn more and more communist, even excluding the officer purges you allude to.
Also, I was stating the Right's response to Boris before they did, not my own.
quote:
Its too bad that you can't make fun of the other side without a . I find that spoils much of the fun. |
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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Admiral
I may be wrong, but wasn't much of the communist influence due to the fact that, during the war, the great majority of outside aide came from the USSR? Given that while unofficial aide arrived from Britain, France, and the US (and, undercover, the Nazis), the one official sponsor was the USSR, it makes sense that they, over the course of the conflict, would turn more and more communist, even excluding the officer purges you allude to.
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Unofficial aid from the British and the US, the Nazis? I must have missed something.
There was help organized via France (and even their position was ambiguous), but the British and US (not the people) certainly favoured Franco in economic relations. And, ironically, no international aid on either side was really "official" since there was this useless neutrality declaration signed by all those nations...
But you're right that the Stalin and his communists took advantage of the war by being the only imporant weapon vendor. Btw., they sponsored nothing but the Republic governments were dumb enough to have much of their gold deposits shipped to Moscow and they paid pretty high prices for weapons that only came when Stalin had interest in it. Because of fear, the republic more and more sold itself to Stalin who never wanted to save the republic but have a long war that might lead to a war with Nazi Germany - after he reached an agreement with Hitler, Spain was left like a rotten potato...
But the republic was never completely controlled by the Communists. Although many gave in for a (too) long time to their demands because they didn't want to weaken the antifascist front, the Communist could not do without others, especially the syndicalists. Those forces made the final coup against Negrín possible.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Heresson
I did not say that I support the concept of inquisition. I've just said that "inquisition can be right sometimes",
by which I've ment that some, or even most, of the people it's declared heretics actually were heretics.
When it comes to the concept of inquisition, I think that existance of organisation quarding the purity of the faith makes sense. But I think it should not have the right to punish people but by excluding them from a church or conditioning their belonging to it by some stuff.
Please, before You call me a freakball You could check exactly what I've actually written. |
I'm a little confused. Do you accept the interrogation methods of the inquisition, but think that the judgements based upon these are to be softened a little ?
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24-04-2005 16:29
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