22-04-2005 08:42									#1
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reposted from an ex-pat forum:
http://expatinkorea.com/expat/viewtopic.php?t=4596

quote: "Hi, my name is X from Arse Rape Recruiting, we got your e-mail" "Oh hi, how are you?" "Yes fine thanks. Could you tell us what you are interested in?" "I outlined everything in my e-mail...you just said you got it..?" "Oh yes...So where do you want to work?" "....In Seoul...as it clearly states in my e-mail...which you have" "I see it's in your e-mail, yes...Where are you now? USA?" "No...I'm in Seoul...the subject of my e-mail was "IN SEOUL NOW" did you really get my e-mail?" "Yes. Could you send us your resume?" "I sent you my resume in my e-mail, which you have." "Oh yes. Well I can't remember seeing it. Did you send it in Microsoft Word format? "Yes I certainly did...twice now that I realise which recruiting firm you are with." "Ah..maybe we couldn't open it, could you send it again using a Word document?" "Did you try opening it in wordpad or notepad? They can also open word files?" "No...my computer doesn't have those." "Actually all computers running Windows have those programs..they come with Windows....did you really read my e-mail? You didn't did you?" "We tried but couldn't, please send your details again. Oh, you want kindergarten right? And Saturdays and you want to work in Daegu for 1.3 million with a shared apartment? Oh and you want to teach mental patients in the childrens ward of a run down underfunded Korean mental hospital right? " "Yep that's me. My name is **** Head McHomo. Wow, you did read my e-mail! You're a great recruiter!" "Thanks! We'll be in contact! Anyong~!" "Cheers whore!"

Is it just in the Korean EFL industry that recruiters are such blatantly incompetant ****s, or are they the same everywhere?

	22-04-2005 11:29									#2
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Both.

	22-04-2005 14:10									#4
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People work at agencies don't know nuthin'. They are extra bad for tech sectors.

	22-04-2005 16:28									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger People work at agencies don't know nuthin'. They are extra bad for tech sectors.

I can imagine. What makes EFL recruiting so awful is that there's often a language gap and a large profit margin so you get HUGE numbers of incompetant fly by night recruiters...

	22-04-2005 21:36									#6
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How big is the profit margin?

	22-04-2005 21:41									#7
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Pretty much that incompetent here too.

	22-04-2005 21:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko I can imagine. What makes EFL recruiting so awful is that there's often a language gap and a large profit margin so you get HUGE numbers of incompetant fly by night recruiters...

You also get HUGE numbers of incompetent teachers, with no experience of a class, and no idea of the language or country.
My brother did a course that qualified him to teach EFL. In a weekend. With no pupils.
Praise the Lord he's never been bothered to use it on some unfortunate kids in order to get a paid holiday.

	22-04-2005 22:58									#9
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I just got of the phone with a recruiter who works for a company that only places Chemical Engineers... I hope he is good at what he does, because I am a real hard sell.

	22-04-2005 23:03									#10
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Hey now!

Okay, I don't recruit for EFL, but it is my line of work, you bastards.

	22-04-2005 23:28									#11
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A while back a head hunter called and said there was an opportunity for twice my current salary. Normally I laugh these off but I was feeling charitable that day so I figured it was worth a few minutes in case the offer was legit. The told me to come down and fill out the paper work and have the recruiters interview me so they could sell me better to their client company. Well I went in to the recruiter's office and sat with their people, and started asking them about the position that they had mentioned on the phone. After much hemming and hawwing, the recruiter said that everyone thought I did great and would I be interested working for them as a manager of recruiters/executive recruiter. (at a salary considerably lower than what I told them my current salary was) but not to worry because in a few years I would be qualified for a possible bonus that when combined with the salary would still be less than I currently made, (not including bonus)

They were shocked that I didn't jump for it.
DUH
No brain no pain,
Needless to say, I never returned any calls from that company and am not charitable when recruiters call me now.

	22-04-2005 23:34									#12
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There are a lot of unscrupulous recruiting firms out there, especially ones where the recruiters work on commission. I was fortunate to work at a firm that was very ethical. Too ethical, at times, as they refused to work for Take Two Interactive because they published GTA. Whatever.

Anyway, I've heard all the horror stories of working with the snake oil salesman. It does make work for the honest recruiters very hard, sadly.

	22-04-2005 23:37									#13
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Recruiters suck.

I talked to one once and a few days later I was Shanghaied to Illinois had my head shaved and made to wear funny clothes.......

ACK!

	22-04-2005 23:59									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger People work at agencies don't know nuthin'. They are extra bad for tech sectors.

I have a pretty lengthy list of companies and individuals I won't deal with, either as an employer or contractor. The one who hooked me up with my present job was pretty damned good though - no BS, he found me, had an interview set up in a week (only because the client guy was out three of those days) and it went phone interview Friday after work, in person interview the next Monday, final phone interview Tuesday (phone because the client liked me and was just going through the motions of having the person I'd be working for talk to me), "when can you start" offer two days later, and start the following week.

Total time from first contact to first day on the job less than three weeks, and a good rate and no pain, no BS throughout.

	23-04-2005 01:33									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko reposted from an ex-pat forum: http://expatinkorea.com/expat/viewtopic.php?t=4596 Is it just in the Korean EFL industry that recruiters are such blatantly incompetant ****s, or are they the same everywhere?

Sounds like someone's job needs to be outsourced to India...

	23-04-2005 04:56									#16
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I don't understand why recruiters would bother misrepresenting things to their candidates or clients. In the end, it only hurts everyone. If you make false promises to candidates, they will be miserable even if they get the job. In which case they will dissatisfy the client, who will be mad at you. Say goodbye to repeat customers.

My firm had a rule that if any of our successful candidates quit or got fired within one year of their hire date, we had to replace them for free. That was a pretty big incentive to get things right from the start.

	23-04-2005 05:03									#17
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I'd say the percentage of good recruiters like Boris is 25%, bad recruiters 75%


I've had ALOT of recruiters misrepresent things to me, including one making promises on the employer's behalf that the employer knew nothing about, and a another one that was trying to sell me a job and then at the last minute told me it was for a porn company. "A large company leading the entertainment industry," is the way he tried to sell it.

The same dude told me he'd get me lined up for 5 jobs the same day.

	23-04-2005 05:10									#18
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At least three times now, my boss has forwarded me phone calls that have ended up being recruiters trying to lure me to other companies. Something she's trying to tell me?

	23-04-2005 06:24									#19
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maybe she's just testing you

The Recruiter I talked to today sent me 5 jobs to look over. I can come up with an excuse not to do 4 of the jobs. The 5th one I am going to ask about, and it's in Tulsa of all places.

	23-04-2005 06:47									#20
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MtG,

Yeah, sometimes you luck out. I remember once I was called by a recruiter with a job, and got hired right on the spot at the interview. It's like winning something in a lottery, though.

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I'd say the percentage of good recruiters like Boris is 25%, bad recruiters 75%

Probably lower for the tech sector, and even the big boys aren't immune. Of all the recruiters I dealt with, I say 10% - 15% are all right. Unfortunately the agencies have a lot of jobs on their hands.

	23-04-2005 09:25									#21
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I have a pretty lengthy list of companies and individuals I won't deal with, either as an employer or contractor. The one who hooked me up with my present job was pretty damned good though - no BS, he found me, had an interview set up in a week (only because the client guy was out three of those days) and it went phone interview Friday after work, in person interview the next Monday, final phone interview Tuesday (phone because the client liked me and was just going through the motions of having the person I'd be working for talk to me), "when can you start" offer two days later, and start the following week. Total time from first contact to first day on the job less than three weeks, and a good rate and no pain, no BS throughout.

That was pretty much my experience as well. They did show a lack of high tech knowledge that sent me to 5 interviews that were a waste of time but I still managed to wind up with the job I still have. As for their margin, I believe their profit margin was 50% while I was under contract. The company was all too happy to hire me after the contract period was up.

	23-04-2005 11:07									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How big is the profit margin?

Well with full times they generally get at least $1000 for placing someone. Their overhead isn't too much (some hole in the wall office and some advertising), as long as they got enough volume they've got to be making a killing.

In some part time or temp jobs, the recruiters can make as much as the teachers for sitting on their asses. Even with overhead taken out, that's a pretty insane profit margin.

quote: You also get HUGE numbers of incompetent teachers, with no experience of a class, and no idea of the language or country.

That too. But with supply and demand, such teachers are necessary to keep the English Teaching industry in Korea afloat.

quote: My brother did a course that qualified him to teach EFL. In a weekend. With no pupils.

I've never had any training. Period. These days I'm a pretty good teacher (or at least I manage to make my kids like me without playing any games or letting them goof off at all).

quote: Okay, I don't recruit for EFL, but it is my line of work, you bastards.

You sick twisted bastard.

quote: Say goodbye to repeat customers.

Well since the people getting recruited often have no qualifications whatsoever, a lot of recruiters don't count on repeat customers. They can make a good deal of money before they muddy the waters too much.

I think EFL recruiters are worse than most since they can lie easier when there's a language and/or geography gap and a lot of schools don't want to deal with visa processing and whatnot.

	23-04-2005 12:04									#23
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On profits: the firm I worked for in NY charged fees that worked like this:

Total fee = 1/3 of first year's projected base salary of the candidate

The fee was divided into three parts. First part was charged at the start of the search, the second after a month, the third upon completion of the search.

The minimum salary level we worked for was $125,000, so you can calculate the total fee from there. Some searches we did were for salaries in excess of $700,000, so we had some nice fees for those.

Additionally, we charged a set fee of $525/month to cover search-related expenses.

	23-04-2005 12:26									#24
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Damn that's expensive. What the hell did you do that was worth that much money?!?!?!

	29-04-2005 01:51									#25
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man...

I've been playing e-mail tag with this recruiter today who is sitting on a job I want in Northern Alabama, and he's all "why would you want to leave sunny California?!" I keep telling him that my wife is pregnant, we want to raise the kid, you can't survive in the bay area on one income unless your a CEO, and that my company has been exporting all our jobs to Jersey, Florida, and Peurto Rico. So, if I can get closer than Jersey I would be happy, and that Huntsville has a great cost of living, and was ranked by Money Mag as one of the best places to work and live. I'm out of breath.


Anyway, if he doesn't at least try and get me an interview because he can't understand why I don't want to live in California anymore I'll join Bosh in bashing Boris

	29-04-2005 01:59									#26
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nope... he called, and is going to try and get me the interview, I am going to talk to him tomorrow.

	29-04-2005 02:36									#27
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Huntsville's not a bad town at all. If you get that one, you'll have to come down for a beer at some point.

	29-04-2005 03:01									#28
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fer sure.

where are you? Solomwi

I talked with this Recruiter about 3 weeks ago about a job that he eventually deemed wasn't for me. I agreed as his discription didn't compare to what the discription the company gave him at all... This one looks better, and Huntsville looks nice, has a good high tech industry, low cost of living (relatively), and is near enough that wifey can jump a plane back to Fresno to visit her fam whenever she feels like.

I also have applied to companies in Birmingham, which also looks nice.

	29-04-2005 03:24									#29
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My experiences with legal and executive recruiters has been moderately positive. While they have never gotten me a job, the ones I have dealt with have been professional and articulate and the job they called to talk to me about was real.

My last experience was last week. I submitted my resume and met with the recruiter the next day. two days later I was apparently "presented" with 5 other short list candidates, to the client. They decided to interview 2 people (not me) and made an offer to one of them. I didn't get the job but

-- it was an appropriate position to contact me about
-- they did what they said they would do throughout
-- professional throughout

	29-04-2005 03:37									#30
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Japher: I'm in Birmingham, and love it. Send me a PM and I'll give you any insight I can on area, companies, whatever. Going out now, though, so it'll be tomorrow.