23-04-2005 23:29									#1
	Civlization Traits - super ultimate mega poll! Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't remember what was decided on this issue so I thought there should be a poll.

The question of civ traits is hotly debated and has alot of effect on the type of game we get and suits different player styles.


There are several basic opinions on this:



1. Preset cvilization traits (like Civ 3 or SMAC)

Players who want to start with pre-set civilization traits to fit a certain style of playing they know they wish to udnertake during the game. Players believe it is more historically accurate, and makes a good "first strategic choise".

Pros: Easier for AI. Supposdely historically accurate. Helps players fit their gaming style.

Cons: Every game plays out pretty much the same (expansionist civs always conquer the world, perfectionists are always small civilizations that launch space ships)



2. Develop as you go No preset civilization traits (like Civ I or Civ II)*

Players who want to start up with a blank file - no civilization traits for me - I want all civs to start the same.

Many of the supporters of this option actually want to see civilization traits develop over time - as a result of player choises made DURING the game. For instance: building wonders and mini-wonders, researching specific technologies, achieving certain "tasks", changing governments etc.

Players beleive it is not accurate to portray a civilization with certain traits, which are supposed to describe it for 6000 years. Traits, they say, are born out of a certain need or environment - and aren't "genetically encoded" - the English are good sailors because they had to be, not because their forefathers passed on "sailor-genes".


Pros: Players can develop their civilization according to taste and according to changes in strategy in mid game. Every game is different.

Cons: Initial civ choise has no effect on game. Non-historic results (Egyptians become commercialists and a navy superpower). AI may have hard time making smart choises as player.






* - this is slightly incorrect - as civilizations did have basic traits such as "expansionist / perfectionist"; "civilizized / agressive" etc.)

	24-04-2005 00:00									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Bananas, sorry. I 'd want either traits that are set at the start but can be chosen (because I pretend that Greece can be militaristic or scientific depending on whether you see it as Athens-based or more Spartan) or traits that evolve as you go.

	24-04-2005 00:08									#3
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Develop as you go, by a mile.

Pre-defined traits aren't a 'strategic choice' unless you know what your starting situation is.

	24-04-2005 00:38									#4
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Developing as you go, of course! As it is now, I almost always play the same 2-3 civs, which is boring. In Civ1/2 I usually played through all of the civs, making my own little roleplaying element out of it. I want to be able with that AND see results!

	24-04-2005 00:56									#5
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Flamed bananas in caramel and whisky please.

I'd like traits to be as they are now, but dynamically changing and formed as you go depending on the paths that you take (more or less as in Galactic Civilization). The environment becomes a factor here, as you might wish to fish more if you are on an island for example.

	25-04-2005 15:29									#6
	Remove this text

I picked "develop traits as I go" but not as in Civ1+2... I don't see that as "developing traits" at all
I want the Civs to actually develop traits during the game (not just through wonders) take e.g. what Trifna said:
If a civ is placed on a small island that civ would probably spend more time trying to get better at fishing and after "a few" turns they might get a trait that makes them better at fishing
While on the other hand if they spent more time building a better army they could end up getting the military trait

	26-04-2005 09:31									#7
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I voted for preset traits, but I'd like to see a combination of preset and developing traits. I like the preset traits because it helps give a reason for choosing a specific civ. On the other hand, developing traits would be more realistic, since in reality traits come from the environment and circumstances.

Perhaps there could be a system where all civs have primary traits that they start out with, and secondary traits that develop and change over time.

	27-04-2005 02:02									#8
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quote: I want to develop traits as I go

	27-04-2005 08:32									#9
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I also vote for the harder to program and encode option...

Develop traits as I go.

	27-04-2005 19:45									#10
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Traits are not very important, this is what i think. So make them "as I go" is a little useless IMO. The most usefull traits are: Religious, for the cheapness of temples and other buildings, Scientific, for the free techs and library and University cheapness, and Agricultural, for the food bonus at start. IMO.
The most important to my eyes is the unique unit of each civ. Hey, UU is a reason to vote "as I go" if you want both systems, to be able to choose a civ from "traits" and have evolutive traits also.

	29-04-2005 11:45									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Trifna Flamed bananas in caramel and whisky please.

Mmmm.