27-04-2005 01:17									#31
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actually I don't always play with the original 7 factions. About half my games involve the original 7.

As I've mentioned, I like playing games with all peaceful factions, or all warmonger factions.

my current game I changed one line in Morgan to focus on expand. Though somehow in the smax game start screen I selected them twice. . So now I'm playing with 2 morgans in my game. And they actually seem to be fairly strong (though Deirdre is in the lead this game- she's probably in the monsoon jungle)

	28-04-2005 00:13									#32
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Hmmm the Angels?

I guess their an ok faction. When they start stealing tech, credits, blowing up base facilities, whatever. But their military pretty much is lacking.

And once they anger me, my invasion begins.

But I like a mixture of SMAC and 'X' factions. Wish there was a way to add more factions on Planet but that's impossible.

	28-04-2005 01:25									#33
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Wow...I would never guess that this thread would become so popular and lead to Muslims and fundalmentalists....

And about those fundalmentalists...

www.moral-politics.com has a "moral values map" of the major religions...it also has a test you can take, but anyway...perhaps this will solve your questions over fundalmentalists compared to just moderate muslims and christians...to see it click on "maps" on the left menu and then click on religions...

And just for future reference...saying you are Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, or an extreme fundalmentalist is an extremely bad idea when you are on the Internet...this isn't the US where the government protects you...you can literrally get eaten alive by saying what religion you are...unlike political parties and nationalities, people react a lot differently and a lot worseto someone who is "Muslim" or "Catholic" or "A fundalmentalist" than to someone is "Conservative" or "American"...

I'm not slandering anyone about their religion, but think of this as a public notice...

	28-04-2005 02:13									#34
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More of an issue is that terms mean different things in different parts in the world.

Even political terms such as "Conservative" & "Liberal", which my internet friends across the pond in England tell me pretty much means the opposite in the UK that they mean in the US when used in politico-speak. Same goes for "right" & "left".

This must have something to do with them always driving on the wrong side of the road there.

A term like Fundamenalist is usually only used by those opposed to it and not the supporters. Supporters of traditional beliefs in their religion usually prefer to call themselves "Conservative".

As for SMAC itself, all seven faction leaders are extemists. And in SMACX, the added leaders there are all also extremists.

	29-04-2005 02:59									#35
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Very true, conservatives in most countries would be considered die hard dictators in the US...even the US green party is more right economically than most countries...

Fundalmentalist, dictionary talk now, is someone who adheres to fundalmental principles, basically, a conservative on social issues...

Generally fundalmentalists are considered conservative, and very few would ever be called liberal (ignore economics)...

While I guess an extreme socialist that's Budhists could call them selves a fundalmentalist (extremely rare I presume...), for all intensive purposes, we can say they are strict conservatives that believe in traditional principles held by a religion or moral doctrine...

	29-04-2005 08:19									#36
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Even political terms such as "Conservative" & "Liberal", which my internet friends across the pond in England tell me pretty much means the opposite in the UK that they mean in the US when used in politico-speak. Same goes for "right" & "left".

Hmm.

"Conservative" is the same. As for "liberal," it means the same as "libertarian" in the US. "Right" and "left" are the same.

	01-05-2005 04:54									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Hmm. "Conservative" is the same. As for "liberal," it means the same as "libertarian" in the US. "Right" and "left" are the same.

Not exactly...conservatives in most countries, with UK as an exception, are more left than even the US green party...

Liberals are not libertarians, liberals are democrats...big difference, because claiming to be a liberal will get you killed, claiming to be a libertarian will get wierd faces...I would know, I live in the US on the borderline between the Republican states and the Democratic States...

Right and left almost always refer to economic issues...however, if you say you are left, many assume you are a democrat, if you say you are right, many assume you are republican...however, depending on the country, the degree of being left or right can vary...being "left" in the US can actually be "right" in say Germany or France...

	22-08-2005 08:19									#38
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quote: Originally posted by fender . The factions are believable, well except for Miriam being so aggressive. This is not a Christian trait.

I totally disagree with just about everything you said, but this needs comment - Miriam is symbolizing fundamentalism, not christianity. These are not one in the same.

Throughout history christians have been by far the most violent faction of human beings on earth (Crusades, american slavery, the Holocaust, colonization, imperialism, both world wars etc. etc.). So its ridiculous to assume futuristic technology would change that fact.

	22-08-2005 12:50									#39
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christians have not been violent the past 100 years (and don't pin wars started by Hitler on christianity) in the name of christianity.

Face it, miriam is a PC choice because no one had the balls to cast a muslim in that role.

You can't pin WW1 and WW2 on christianity. Sure christians were involved. But the wars had nothing to do with christianity and everything to do with nationalism.

	22-08-2005 19:49									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Xian I totally disagree with just about everything you said, but this needs comment - Miriam is symbolizing fundamentalism, not christianity. These are not one in the same. Throughout history christians have been by far the most violent faction of human beings on earth (Crusades, american slavery, the Holocaust, colonization, imperialism, both world wars etc. etc.). So its ridiculous to assume futuristic technology would change that fact.

Surely you can't be that simplistic in your evaluations? This is a perfect example of someone who starts out with a preconceived idea and looks at events blinded by those ideas. At the worst, you can claim that Christians have allowed their faith to be used by men and women with their own agenda in mind. Blaiming the holocaust on Chrstians is just plain stupid. Again, the worst you can do is say that many Christians didn't resist what was going on enough but Hitler was hardly a Christian. Don't let your bias cloud your ability to think about things. There are enough real abuses made throughout history in the name of religion in general without you just making crap up as you go along.

	22-08-2005 19:53									#41
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I like the original factions better but I play them in SMAX.

Plus I like the ability to create custom factions.

	22-08-2005 19:58									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Alex Ever heard of the Crusades?

Ever hear of human nature? The best of ideas usually get ****ed up once actual live human beings start trying to implement it.

Religion, communism, or the strip mall at the corner all get fouled up when people are thrown into the mix.

Unity seemed like a good idea. But once it started to break up everyone had their own ideas as to what was going to go down.

	22-08-2005 21:36									#43
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Yeah christianity is about mercy to the extreme, even at cost of oneself (just look at christ's example, john paul's 2nd life and so on).. though there are always people who use religion (anything that is convenient really) for their benefit (crusades, politics).

Its old testament that contains violent parts (eye for an eye) but its not what priests teach people in churches.

Muslim faith seems to be much more violent (Koran speaks about fighting nonbelievers with any means possible, and about Allah's vengeance that catches everyone), though I am not any expert here and can misinterpret.

---

But as far as game goes - I do not recall anything that precisely states which religion Miriam pursues. Surely there are some references to christianity, but not only.

To me it seems that she is following some futuristic mix of monotheistic religions - some catholic thoughts, some muslim, some utterly fictional.

And its pretty ok - this is a game after all meant to be fun for everyone who likes to think - nothing more, nothing less

	22-08-2005 22:01									#44
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quote: Yeah christianity is about mercy to the extreme, even at cost of oneself (just look at christ's example, john paul's 2nd life and so on).. though there are always people who use religion (anything that is convenient really) for their benefit (crusades, politics). Its old testament that contains violent parts (eye for an eye) but its not what priests teach people in churches. Muslim faith seems to be much more violent (Koran speaks about fighting nonbelievers with any means possible, and about Allah's vengeance that catches everyone), though I am not any expert here and can misinterpret.

that is very adequate interpretation to me.its nice the smacers dont just dogpile on christiananity here,like on some other forums....but then i guess if your playing smac your going to act better,live better,breathe better and do everything better anyhow

	22-08-2005 22:04									#45
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I, Senethro of the Hive propose a new motion before the Chironian Planetary Council; That this thread be buried and bumped no more, as it is in clear violation of the Forum Necromancy Act of 2123 and the Prohibition of Entirely Subjective Religious Discussion Act.

I further more propose that if the conflict is not resolved or at least off the AC G/H/S front page in 10 days time that extensive carpet bombing using kitten and puppy jpegs be conducted until all thread participants cease activity under a hail of cuteness.

How does the rest of the council vote?

	22-08-2005 22:39									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro I, Senethro of the Hive propose a new motion before the Chironian Planetary Council; That this thread be buried and bumped no more, as it is in clear violation of the Forum Necromancy Act of 2123 and the Prohibition of Entirely Subjective Religious Discussion Act. I further more propose that if the conflict is not resolved or at least off the AC G/H/S front page in 10 days time that extensive carpet bombing using kitten and puppy jpegs be conducted until all thread participants cease activity under a hail of cuteness. How does the rest of the council vote?

I vote aye

	22-08-2005 22:46									#47
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SMAX baby

	22-08-2005 22:49									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro I, Senethro of the Hive propose a new motion before the Chironian Planetary Council; That this thread be buried and bumped no more, as it is in clear violation of the Forum Necromancy Act of 2123 and the Prohibition of Entirely Subjective Religious Discussion Act. I further more propose that if the conflict is not resolved or at least off the AC G/H/S front page in 10 days time that extensive carpet bombing using kitten and puppy jpegs be conducted until all thread participants cease activity under a hail of cuteness. How does the rest of the council vote?

I vote nay: those that forget the past are condemned to repeating it. By being reminded of the thoughts of those who have gone before us, we are given the opportunity to not repeat the same mistakes as they had done.....
Also, in reference to the "Prohibition of Entirely Subjective Religious Discussion Act" (or PESRDA? ) , why the Bureau of Uniform Legal Litigation (or "BULL") takes the stance that this argument has no legal basis, and therefore all free citizens are allowed to either choose to read and contemplate these thoughts, or not: it is their choice ....


Anyways, I've seen people dig up a lot of good stuff from the past that either I hadn't been aware of, or had saved me time from having to explore the options myself. Digging up old threads (or "Thread Necromancy") isn't a bad thing, IMO.



D

	23-08-2005 00:02									#49
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in that case senethro i advise you to keep a sharp eye out for hood-wearing nutcases tonight

	23-08-2005 01:40									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan Anyways, I've seen people dig up a lot of good stuff from the past that either I hadn't been aware of, or had saved me time from having to explore the options myself. Digging up old threads (or "Thread Necromancy") isn't a bad thing, IMO. D

I agree with that -- I see no problem bumping old threads-- I merely thought his motion was largely aimed at the very off-topic turn this particular thread had taken and which had been "resurrected"

Old Smax threads
Old off-topic in this forum

	24-08-2005 05:12									#51
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I find it interesting that some posters think that SMAC/X's Believers aren't a Christian Sect. I'll partially reproduce some game text to make the point:

The Lord's Believers
BACKGROUND: Christian States of America
-Fundamentalist bible thumping
-Embrace the truth of the Lord's Scripture
-Pounding her cherished bible
-Bible thumping extremism

-BASES
New Jerusalem
Great Zion
Far Jericho
Noah's Rainbow
Blessed Redeemer
New Eden
The Lord's Mercy
The Coming of the Lord
Blessed Saviour
He Walked on Water
Loaves and Fishes
Belly of the Whale
Fisher of Men
Water to Wine
Consecrated Waters

I'm not making any political statement here, and I hope I'm not offending anyone. I just want to keep the facts straight.

	24-08-2005 05:56									#52
	Put an end to popups!

NO STOP THIS THREAD MUST TDIE

	24-08-2005 12:24									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior I find it interesting that some posters think that SMAC/X's Believers aren't a Christian Sect. I'll partially reproduce some game text to make the point: I'm not making any political statement here, and I hope I'm not offending anyone. I just want to keep the facts straight.

I don't believe that they are trying to imply that Believers are not a Christian sect, although sentry33 mistakenly believes they are not solely based on Christianity, but that they are different than real life Christians which some other posters don't get it. They are making a mistake by identifying Believers with normal Christians.

They are based on Christianity, but Believers aren't meant to represent Christians but religious Fundamentalism, as Xian has nicely summarized, and this is what is causing the disagreement. Old testament and New testament are different, and can be used to support many different courses of action.

	25-08-2005 04:29									#54
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SMAX - mostly because of some annoying faults in SMAC. Though, somehow I'm some kind of fond of the music in smac.

* hey, don't take that straightjacket, it's mine

	25-08-2005 08:05									#55
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I have to say, who ever came up with the idea of montheism is a true genius...think about it...

People are stupid...especially back in time...maybe stupid isn't the right word, perhaps gullible...you see, people believed almost everything...they believed the world was flat, and they believed God existed...

Now, I do give them credit, all the evidence they had and their lack of understanding of science seemed to indicate that God really did exist, but all the same...

So now, people believe God exists...okay, so someone smart uses that to "force" people to do whatever..."if you don't do it, God will strike you down with lightning" and that sort of thing really would have worked...people believe in God, and fear it because they don't understand it...so, you add a fancy little storyline with characters in it (mostly factual), but tie it all up with God, and then you write a moral code...

Now, everyone fears God, and believes your little story of creation and whatever, and so, because of their fear, they do what God says...and if God "says" do this and don't do that, then we have a moral code that people will follow...now, all you have to do is slip in something like tithing, and not only do you have people following you, listening to you, but you have people paying you as well...

I absolutely hate Scientology, but I give its creator credit...if you want to make money, make a religion...

Last edited by Commy on 26-08-2005 at 04:51

	26-08-2005 07:57									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory How ironic. What do you know about Islam, anyway?

I've lived in Muslim countries for years at a time. I know everything about Islam (at least compared to most Western Hemisphere dwellers). That guy who was fighting with you is right. I should know. I do know.

	26-08-2005 09:08									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I would appreciate it if you wouldn't quote me misleadingly. The way you used my quote makes it appear to be a response to you.

If you're going to dredge up a dead argument, at least say more than that someone is right.

	26-08-2005 19:18									#58
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I haven't got SMAX yet (it's too expensive ) (and I'm too lazy to get a job...anyone wanna bop me a copy on the cheap? ), but I plan to play a couple of games with the new SMAX factions, just to see what it's like and to get a feel for the new Techs and stuff, then go back to playing SMAX with the SMAC Factions. Reason being, I think the original Factions are more "pure" - they're sort of ideological pillars, whereas the new Factions are more narrow in their agendas. Also, the new Factions (especially the Aliens) tend to over-power the old ones, or so I'm told. Either way, I wouldn't mix the two groups, else the continuity is shot to Hell - the original Factions are based upon the Unity crashing, whereas the new Factions are based upon groups created forming once Planet has been colonised. So basically, I just want the play good old SMAC with the new Techs, Facilities and so forth from SMAX.

	26-08-2005 19:40									#59
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"continuity", "pure".

Someone translate please.

Oh, and you've been PMed NanoDingo.

	26-08-2005 20:21									#60
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continuity
Unbroken sequential link between...things...

pure
Untainted; delusion ally idealistic; suitable for people with mild obsessive-compulsive personality disorder

quote: Originally posted by Senethro Oh, and you've been PMed NanoDingo.

Ooh.
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