27-04-2005 21:43									#31
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I'd have to look up the actual numbers... but they are good compared to other aircraft. That was one of the selling features... it's takes advantage of all the latest fuel efficency technologies in both the engines and overall design.

	27-04-2005 21:44									#32
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good

	27-04-2005 21:45									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Four trips in 7 years... However we hope to go every winter starting soon. We might end up going in December, though nothing is sure. Wanna go if we go? We're still working out the cost for staying in our house, but it will be somewhere around $200 for a month, including meals eaten in the house.

Thanks for the offer!

	27-04-2005 21:45									#34
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the wingspan is light that basically gives it a good fuel per persson percentage

anyway the bet is if this or the dreamliner will prove more necessairy in the aviation market.

	27-04-2005 21:48									#35
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it's not the biggest plane ever. a russian one still holds that position.

	27-04-2005 21:48									#36
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This aircraft was designed with the current airline "hub" system in mind. It will move people from central hub to central hub over long distances with excellent fuel efficiencies... and that "plan" will mean full planes.

	27-04-2005 21:49									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ming This aircraft was designed with the current airline "hub" system in mind. It will move people from central hub to central hub over long distances with excellent fuel efficiencies... and that "plan" will mean full planes.

whereas the 787 will serve mainly regional airports. why would the two be competing? i see them more as supplementary to each other.

	27-04-2005 22:04									#38
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Fuel efficiency is the most important parameter in modern aviation; they absolutely drink the stuff...

	27-04-2005 22:05									#39
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Speaking about weights you certainly could load 800 pessengers in a B747 but maybe only few of them would reach destination alive.

Max Take Off Weights for some of the biggest planes in the world:

1- An-225 Mirya 600 tons
2- A-380/A-380F 560 tons/590 tons
3- An -124 Ruslan 405 tons
4- B747-400 396 tons
5- C-5B Galaxy 381 tons
6- A340-600 368 tons

	27-04-2005 22:19									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Fuel efficiency is the most important parameter in modern aviation; they absolutely drink the stuff...

Useless piece of trivia of the day:

it takes more fuel to fly a kiwi (the fruit..eugh yes, the eadible one. ) to Europe than the liquid it could hold.

	27-04-2005 22:21									#41
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eh

	27-04-2005 22:27									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Fuel efficiency is the most important parameter in modern aviation; they absolutely drink the stuff...

I seem to recall that in terms of km/l/person they are more efficient than cars.

	27-04-2005 22:29									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin I seem to recall that in terms of km/l/person they are more efficient than cars.

But not busses.

It's a bad comparison, mass transport vs car...?

	27-04-2005 22:34									#44
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Trains neither, but I was not making a comparison for substitution purposes anyway.

	27-04-2005 22:37									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Yes around 840 bodies at a crashsite Though the standard version will have something like 550 seats or so.

they need to fill the plane to capacity to fullfill the "cheaper/flies further then boeing per passenger". Terrorism and accidents with this guy will be fairly bad.

	27-04-2005 22:43									#46
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I've been thinking about this: wouldn't making multiple-story bunk beds, and then putting all the people horisontally, and asleep, would be much much more practical, comfortable, and allow for more room?

	27-04-2005 22:45									#47
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"I've been thinking about this: wouldn't making multiple-story bunk beds, and then putting all the people horisontally, and asleep, would be much much more practical, comfortable, and allow for more room?"

	27-04-2005 22:49									#48
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I'm most impressed by the news of this. I mean, an airplane takes off, flies around for a while and lands again a little later.

Colour me purple, peel gently and eat me in one bite, now I've seen it all.

	27-04-2005 22:52									#49
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Winston

	27-04-2005 23:55									#50
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 whereas the 787 will serve mainly regional airports. why would the two be competing? i see them more as supplementary to each other.

Very insightful... both planes were designed to meet the two diferent primary airline strategies/needs, so that they wouldn't compete directly. Both companies have a different view on the needs of the market, and what the future of the airline business will be. Plus, neither wanted to go head to head, because the market can't really support two similar aircraft.

	28-04-2005 03:39									#51
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What are the stats of the 787?

	28-04-2005 03:42									#52
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Age of pirates mod eh Ata? I'll have to check that out.

	28-04-2005 03:51									#53
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Hey cool if you have tried, tell me what you think!
It's a bit complicated, because you need to download the big one first, then apply beta1_patch1, beta3 and finally beta4.

Beta 5 will probably be available early next week. I think I have to reduce the natives strength a bit. Make their chieftain 3/3 instead of 4/3, increase the costs a bit and make the brave require support.
I also think about a cheaper settler for pirates and remove the military police limit again.

	28-04-2005 03:55									#54
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Yes I just read the thread in your link. Looks a bit complicated. Maybe I'll wait until it's further along. I'm not a comp whiz and lazy about such stuff. Will BETA 5 be easier?

	28-04-2005 17:17									#55
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quote: Very insightful... both planes were designed to meet the two diferent primary airline strategies/needs, so that they wouldn't compete directly. Both companies have a different view on the needs of the market, and what the future of the airline business will be. Plus, neither wanted to go head to head, because the market can't really support two similar aircraft.

now it all depends what the airlines want...i dont think i will change of the hub system any time soon (or maybe never) because they know the system and the profitmarges...i think boeing wont sell many except for the less importent lines...they can use the directtravel approach much easier...

but the beauty of tha A380 is that it is the first plane not made of wood or alliminium...so it is like a lot lighter and even stronger go european air and space projects :b.

	28-04-2005 17:30									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword now it all depends what the airlines want...

And that was the question Boeing had to deal with. They knew they were in a weak position to directly compete against the A380... so they couldn't just come up with an identical plane... Research done against the airlines showed that this strategy was the best for them... But as usual in the aircraft business, the time between the start of the project and actually delivering the first aircraft is a long one, and the market conditions change. It was a far better idea at the time than it is now. The major carriers have totally adopted the hub system due to it's advantages... But even so... there will be a limited demand for the A380, and there would have been no room two aircraft in this class... so Boeing did the only thing they could... time will tell whether they should even have bothered.

	28-04-2005 17:35									#57
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It does seem like there was a big subsidy given to Airbus to make this plane. The intial design capital was all arranged and partially put up by various European governments thus Airbus got to borrow money at below market rate. How is Boeing supposed to compete with a company which gets such massive government subsidies?l

	28-04-2005 17:41									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin How is Boeing supposed to compete with a company which gets such massive government subsidies?l

Yes, Airbus had a distinct advantage due to direct subsidies from their partner governments. Which is one of the reasons Boeing decided to build a different type of aircraft after determining what the total potential for that type of aircraft was...

But let's not shed any tears for Boeing... While they don't receive any direct subsidies from the US government... they get a bunch of indirect (wink/wink) dollars from the US government in terms of defense contracts. They are the largest defense contractor for a reason. Granted, not the same thing, but don't doubt the dollar advantage that gives them.

	28-04-2005 17:43									#59
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I love how the pictures all show large seats with tons of leg room. Anyone have bets on when the airlines will change the seating and start cramming people in like sardines?

	28-04-2005 17:46									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Ming But let's not shed any tears for Boeing... While they don't receive any direct subsidies from the US government... they get a bunch of indirect (wink/wink) dollars from the US government in terms of defense contracts. They are the largest defense contractor for a reason. Granted, not the same thing, but don't doubt the dollar advantage that gives them.

Not only is it not the same thing but I don't even see that as a subsidy. The military market is like any other buyer and the US Air Force needs cargo planes and all of the contracts are publically bidded. European contractors can and do win large lucrative defense contracts so how is it when Boeing competes and wins in this market that it is some how a subsidy?