27-04-2005 19:35									#1
	EU and the fight against tobacco continues Inflate your Upload Space

I just read the EU is about to ban 99% of all the cigarettes on the market because they contain dangerous additives. The only news source I found is german, so either you study that awful language or get the whip and beat the english news agencies to be a bit faster.

quote: Im Kampf gegen die gesundheitsschädigenden Folgen des Rauchens fordern Europa-Parlamentarier nun in einer Initiative ein Verbot der großteils hochgiftigen Zusatzstoffe in Zigaretten. Derzeit würden entsprechende Überlegungen im Umweltausschuss des EU-Parlaments diskutiert, hieß es dazu am Mittwoch aus Brüssel. "Aus für 99 Prozent der Zigaretten" "Das bedeutet das Aus von mindestens 99 Prozent der heute bekannten Zigaretten", sagte dazu der deutsche Ausschusschef Karl-Heinz Florenz. "Nikotin wird immer schädlich sein, aber eine noch größere Gefahr sind die Zusatzstoffe." Über 800 Zusätze Einige der nach seinen Angaben 800 Beimengungen seien als Grundstoff zwar ungefährlich, würden aber bei 800 Grad Celsius verbrannt und dann hochtoxisch. "Da sind Dioxine und Furane dabei, dass einem die Haare zu Berge stehen", so Florenz. "REACH": Chemikalienrichtlinie in Beratung Derzeit berät das Parlament über die von der EU-Kommission vorgeschlagenen Chemikalienrichtlinie (REACH), mit der Zehntausende Stoffe auf ihre Schädlichkeit überprüft werden sollen. Das Projekt ist umstritten, da die Industrie Milliardenkosten für die Prüfung der vor 1981 auf den Markt gekommenen Substanzen beklagt. Nach der ersten Parlamentslesung beraten die EU-Staaten die Richtlinie weiter. Derzeit ist allerdings noch offen, wann es zu einem abschließenden Beschluss kommt. Zusatzstoffe auf die schwarze Liste? Die Parlamentarier wollen auch die Zusatzstoffe in den Zigaretten in die REACH-Liste aufnehmen. "Dann müsste jeder dieser Stoffe auf die Prüfbank und es würde nicht viel übrig bleiben", sagte Florenz. Das beginne bereits beim Zigarettenpapier, das oft mit zahlreichen Zusatzstoffen angereichert sei. "Jeder Raucher ist zwar für seine Gesundheit selbst verantwortlich - aber nur wenn er davon ausgehen kann, dass in seiner Zigarette nur Tabak ist." Die Zigarette von heute müsse verboten werden. Source: http://news.orf.at/050427-86339/index.html

Summary: There are about 800 additives, many of them which are already in the paper and that when burnt at 800°C are toxic and dangerous. Banning these additives would render 99% of all currently available cigarettes illegal.
I don't know.. I don't think smoking will get more healthy that way.. it will always be unhealthy.

Why not promoting water pipes? I think they could filter out the bad stuff better.

	27-04-2005 19:40									#2
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I don't understand the arguement for the lax view of marijuana and heroin when contrasted with the hardline on tobacco.

	27-04-2005 19:48									#3
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I doubt that cigarettes typically achieve 800 C temps.

	27-04-2005 19:50									#4
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Well that's just the netherlands and I guess the heroin is to keep the people away from the street dealers and get control over them without legalizing the drug. That way you can slowly get them off it and don't lose em.

	27-04-2005 19:51									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe I doubt that cigarettes typically achieve 800 C temps.

I dunno, the article says so as if it was that way

	27-04-2005 20:48									#6
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Instead of going to war against the crap contained in cigarettes, shouldn't we go to war against the addictives instead?

The addiction to tobacco is the main reason why so many people die from it. If we banned the artificial introduction of addictives (in every consumer product, not only tobacco), we'd get rid of quite a health hazard.

	27-04-2005 21:13									#7
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And the health gain does outweigh the social impact?

	27-04-2005 21:18									#8
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If we ban only the substances that are purposefully added in the cigs, the cig-makers will simply adapt and stop adding their crap.

In the current lawmaking you're speaking about (that doesn't target only the substances purposefully added, unlike what I advocate), 1% of cigarettes pass muster, which means that it is technically possible to produce cigs that don't have all that crap. In order not to lose the large European market, the producers will simply change their recipes. It WON'T mean that your favourite brand will be banned, since the producers will be granted mucho time to change.

	27-04-2005 21:18									#9
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I don't understand the arguement for the lax view of marijuana and heroin when contrasted with the hardline on tobacco.

Tobacco is a minor ingrediant in cigarettes.

	27-04-2005 21:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If we ban only the substances that are purposefully added in the cigs, the cig-makers will simply adapt and stop adding their crap. In the current lawmaking you're speaking about (that doesn't target only the substances purposefully added, unlike what I advocate), 1% of cigarettes pass muster, which means that it is technically possible to produce cigs that don't have all that crap. In order not to lose the large European market, the producers will simply change their recipes. It WON'T mean that your favourite brand will be banned, since the producers will be granted mucho time to change.

I am confused
addictive = nikotin
additive = something you add to something
or not?

So you spoke against addictives which would mean a ban of tobacco in general and claimed a healthier life and I asked if this would outweigh the social impact (I think you can draw a scenario for yourself).

	27-04-2005 22:14									#11
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800 degrees! Man, I BBQed my lungs for too many years. I hope they can repair the damage.

	27-04-2005 23:13									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe I doubt that cigarettes typically achieve 800 C temps.

http://web.ask.com/redir?u=http%3A%...snip&Complete=1


We performed a series of experiments in order to determine the actual temperature of the lit cigarette. Here are the results for the temperature at different locations and under different conditions:

Temperature without drawing:
Side of the lit portion: 400 deg C (or 752 deg F)
Middle of the lit portion: 580 deg C (or 1112 deg F)

Temperature during drawing:
Middle of the lit portion: 700 deg C (or 1292 deg F)

The above numbers represent the average we obtained by performing several trials and can be considered accurate to within 50 deg C. A standard Fe-CuNi digital thermocouple thermometer was used in all trials.

	27-04-2005 23:16									#13
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Thanks Oerdin I was thinking 600 C.

	28-04-2005 00:14									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa So you spoke against addictives which would mean a ban of tobacco in general and claimed a healthier life and I asked if this would outweigh the social impact (I think you can draw a scenario for yourself).

I don't know if there are any natural addctives in tobacco. If it's the case, in my suggestion, they're here to stay.

However, cigarettes have plenty of artificial addictives that are cynically put in them by the cigarette companies. Removing this crap (and leaving the tobacco and the other non-addictive components in) would make a serious change in the addictiveness of cigarettes, while still keeping them in the shelves.

	28-04-2005 03:44									#15
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Umm do you have any sources to back that up?

	28-04-2005 03:52									#16
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The tobacco companies were forced to admit it when workers blew the whistle. Iirc the companies were refining nicotine down to get the most addictive part and adding it to the cig.

	28-04-2005 03:54									#17
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ouch

	28-04-2005 03:57									#18
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Ya. Phillip Morris lost bizzillions because of the lawsuits that followed that news break. As well they should have.