29-04-2005 06:42									#31
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quote: Originally posted by our_man Hey, interesting information... It's a problem in Europe definitely, even in Ireland. The abuse of women sickens me, even more than the singling out of a particular continents, or country (e.g. Britain). Why is it worth singling out Europe in particular boann, when some of the top destinations for trafficked women (Russian, at least) are Qatar and Bahrain... I guess in your view it's acceptable to abuse women if you're an Arab then, huh? What about the sex industry in Bangkok? If you abuse women in Asia, that's all good too? What's your agenda? Why do you hate Europe, singling it out, when this is a worldwide problem

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i didn't write the article...
in my opinion abuse against women anywhere is unacceptable...
my agenda.... making you aware of womens issues
in a forum dominated by men and boys who don't often talk about women unless it involves photographs.

i don't hate europe... but a lot of you live there
seems you might want to talk about the issue.
since it is men who create the problem.
change starts with talk ......

	29-04-2005 08:34									#32
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go Boann

JM

	29-04-2005 09:26									#33
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They recently uncovered a Latina sex slavery ring in Florida.

	29-04-2005 09:42									#34
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quote: you don't see people going into prostitution because they run up huge credit card debts. They declare bankruptcy and move on with their lives.

Really? Happens all the time over here.

	29-04-2005 10:20									#35
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Sex slave "industries."

	29-04-2005 12:33									#36
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071965/

MSNBC.com exposes a sexual slavery network
Infiltrating Europe's shameful trade in human beings
By Preston Mendenhall

	29-04-2005 17:53									#37
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When I was in the Balkans we'd report illegal whore houses and trafficing in women all the tme but the UNMIK would hardly ever take action. One of the local American commanders took it upon himself to order a raid on a hotel that was a well known center of human trafficing and over a dozen women who were kept as sex slaves were freed. The UNMIK got all territorial and said only they could do such law enforcement and that KFOR wasn't to do any more raids on human trafficers.

The long story short is that the US Army got ordered to not conduct any more raids on human trafficers and the UN still only did a raid every once in a blue moon. The ****ing UNMIK police just didn't seem to care and it was pretty easy to figure out why since the UN vehicles were always parked in front of those whore houses.

	29-04-2005 18:58									#38
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This is indeed nothing new, and the problem boils down to this:

- There is a very effective organized crime in Eastern Europe. It's the worst in countries where corruption is rampant. High-end officials there have much trouble dealing with it. These orgfanized syndicates can pressure their slaves by threatening their families.

- There are tough anti-immigration laws in Europe. Basically, we give a formidable pressure tool to the traffickers (not only in the sex industry), because the victims become extremely fragile as soon as they're stripped of their passport. This ain't gonna change soon.

- There is a huge income difference between western Europe and Eastern Europe. A poor man's wage in the west is not too shabby in the East.
Besides, prices are very different between the East and the West, which makes western money falsely look even more attractive (for example, according to the OECD, you can buy 2.5 times more stuff in Slovakia than in Denmark with the same amount of money - and they're both EU countries).

	29-04-2005 19:08									#39
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dp

	30-04-2005 01:18									#40
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Ooh, that's gonna cost you Spiff..even with a illegal one

	30-04-2005 13:50									#41
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Yeah I know. And I'm poor at the moment

	30-04-2005 13:55									#42
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Spiffor, you are correct on those points and they play key roles in the problem, and they are problems that are not going to change anytime soon.

	30-04-2005 14:11									#43
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It seems to me that the best option would be the education of women in these Eastern European countries. Perhaps short programs should be run for older high school kids, etc, about the dangers of these so-called "jobs". Unless these are around already. Unless these are around already.

	30-04-2005 15:01									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia because we know that you cant tax prostitution, its a service. how many services do you know of that are taxed.

Uh...most of them?

	30-04-2005 15:52									#45
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thanks for reminding us Boann about this terrible trade

	30-04-2005 17:31									#46
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@LoA: Germany is a good example of a country that have legal prostitution and an underground sex slavery industry.

The problem with going legal isn't paying taxes, but that you have to treat the girls like employees rather than chattel slaves.

I suppose one could legalize slavery, but I don't think that solve more problems than it creates.

	30-04-2005 18:13									#47
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No no no you are now handling different categories. The kinky lovers who want to play games, and the sicker branch of that who are not going to settle for roleplay but the real deal. These folks are a little bit out there, but they will be there legalized or not.

Just like legalizing prostitution won't do anything to decrease the number of pedophiles.

Legalizing prostitution will enable the option of making the 'normal' sex folks open, where as the underground scene with worse crimes and sick stuff as well will always a) be forbidden and b) they don't get kicks from anywhere else so it'll stay around.

George 35 year olds who is looking to go to get prostitution services won't go to a dungeon where you can suffocate your victim for real afterwards, or at least beat them up. He goes to the legalized sex dungeon, where it's more safe for him as well (STDs etc etc) and where it's easier.

The ones who are more freaky will always be in their own category, and the supply those needs, there will be folks handling, and that scene won't ever die, period.

And legalizing slavery analogue is horribly invalid.

	30-04-2005 20:22									#48
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you can rationalise but the chances are the woman is not there by choice

	30-04-2005 20:38									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka And legalizing slavery analogue is horribly invalid.

It's not an analogy, for starters ...

	30-04-2005 20:47									#50
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but it was horrible anyway. So there.

	30-04-2005 21:00									#51
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What, exactly, is horrible about suggesting that legalizing slavery would cause more problems than it solves?

	30-04-2005 23:00									#52
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Last Conformist, you are right of course. Legalizing prostitution is one way legalization: for the clients and the pimps, if the women are coerced into or forced to remain in the service by force or circumstances. As any good commie would say, prostitution is a form of wage slavery.

	30-04-2005 23:27									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Last Conformist, you are right of course. Legalizing prostitution is one way legalization: for the clients and the pimps, if the women are coerced into or forced to remain in the service by force or circumstances. As any good commie would say, prostitution is a form of wage slavery.

Wage slavery is more of a Anarchist term than a Communist one, I think.

	30-04-2005 23:44									#54
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Wage slavery is more of a Anarchist term than a Communist one, I think.

Thanks, GL. I can never distinguish between the various shades of red and pink.

	30-04-2005 23:46									#55
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Anarchists use black, sweetheart.

	30-04-2005 23:55									#56
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Anarchists use black, sweetheart.

OMFG, why? To confuse us?

	01-05-2005 00:08									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse you can rationalise but the chances are the woman is not there by choice

and how would you know this?

	01-05-2005 00:20									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident and how would you know this?

Dis, that is why I made the somewhat ludicrous suggestion of ID cards so that patrons can see whether the sex worker is there of his or her own accord.

	01-05-2005 00:26									#59
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all I know is it works in Nevada. You don't see illegal immigrants, in fact nearly all of them are white women (not that I've been to those places ).

Although prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas, and we do have some problems. But most of the problems are with americans, not illegal alien. The problem is women addicted to crack are sometimes forced to do certain things for their next hit of crack.

	01-05-2005 00:40									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident all I know is it works in Nevada. You don't see illegal immigrants, in fact nearly all of them are white women (not that I've been to those places ). Although prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas, and we do have some problems. But most of the problems are with americans, not illegal alien. The problem is women addicted to crack are sometimes forced to do certain things for their next hit of crack.

Yeah, if prostitution were legalized, I would require that workers with drug problems be removed from the street or brothel and be cleaned up. But, as we know with druggies, keeping them clean is almost never for very long.

Then there is also the problem of extreme poverty. Many women work as prostitutes because this is the only way to live decently.

Ending drug abuse and poverty may be the only way to end involuntary prostitution.