01-05-2005 11:58									#1
	A new game? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

My impression is that there is not sufficient interest for another game - but I'd love to be proved wrong.

RJM at Sleeper's

	01-05-2005 23:44									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

i would be willing to participate(returning to civ2 a bit)


thats my impression too,however,that there is not enough interest

	11-05-2005 02:23									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

3 votes, i guess your right.
Lets forget it and stick to MP.

	16-05-2005 18:56									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Write-in Maybe vote.

	16-05-2005 19:21									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

hi , i am new to this .... what exactly is a demo game? several people use a few turns and you pick the best save to continue ?

it sounds interesting , do you accept players that don't have alot of experience ...... ?

	17-05-2005 10:46									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by caesar007 hi , i am new to this .... what exactly is a demo game? several people use a few turns and you pick the best save to continue ? it sounds interesting , do you accept players that don't have alot of experience ...... ?

In a demo game as originally conceived, the citizens elected a leader and a cabinet. The cabinet advised the leader on their areas of responsibility and the leader then played a number of turns. The leader would then tell the citizens about the results, usually with a few screen shots. There would be general discussion about the position, perhaps stimulated by polls posted by the cabinet. And the whole cycle would begin again. We would elect a new leader and cabinet every month.

During the last game, participation dropped to the point where we could not elect a leader. We decided to finish the game using the "better ball" format you describe - several people playing from the same position and then choosing the result to take forward.

We accept everyone who want's to participate, whatever their experience. At the moment, however, we don't seem to have enough participants to begin a new game. We'd probably need 8 or more for a real demo game. We could probably manage another "better ball" with 4 (although 6 would be better).

There is only 1 active game at the moment - the OCC game in the general thread - you would be very welcome to join that.

RJM at Sleeper's

	06-06-2005 16:46									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I would be honored to participate in another round of democratic game play.

Sorry I didn't vote, I kept looking for the lilttle "light bulb" to be turned on to show new posts and it never was. Stopped in to start a similar poll myself.



P.S. I hear rumors that the famouse cave dweller has a new game idea.

	07-06-2005 10:39									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Zedd I would be honored to participate in another round of democratic game play. Sorry I didn't vote, I kept looking for the lilttle "light bulb" to be turned on to show new posts and it never was. Stopped in to start a similar poll myself. P.S. I hear rumors that the famouse cave dweller has a new game idea.

I'm not sure that we have enough participants, even allowing for those who didn't vote in the poll, bur expressed their interest. However, if cavebear has a game idea, it's worth exploring.

RJM at Sleeper's

	07-06-2005 16:59									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

l would be interested in giving this game format a try, should enough participants be found.

	07-06-2005 17:57									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

lets hear some more info on these rumors

	08-06-2005 10:45									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

rumors smumors will there be a new game or not

	08-06-2005 11:01									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Hydey rumors smumors will there be a new game or not

The no limits man becomes the no patience man

OK we have had a number of people expressing some interest, but what form do we all want the game to take? (I suppose I mean what restrictions do we place on ourselves to prevent us winning too easily?)

Possibilities:

- 0% science
- single city until a certain date
- build no wonders
- spotless reputation
- no diplomats or spies
- no trade

How about the strating position? Just a random start or something put together by one of the fiendish brains?

Any comments?

RJM at Sleeper's

	08-06-2005 16:29									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: - 0% science - no trade

I would not recommend doing both of these options, unless we can find Xin Yu!

If I might make a suggestion, I would recommend disallowing the use of Monarchy, and perhaps Democracy. I also like the idea of taking the first random start. I find that often these positions are very limiting in and of themselves.

I like the idea of having no wonders AND no dips or spies. This would mean no embassies which would certainly make life difficult.

No huts is another good option.

I am also assuming we are limiting ourselves to a SS victory.

So, I guess if I was making a vote it would be for:
- 0% science
- No Monarchy
- No Democracy
- No wonders
- No dips/spies
- No huts
- First random start
- Spotless Rep

StuporMan

	08-06-2005 21:32									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by rjmatsleepers - 0% science - single city until a certain date - build no wonders - spotless reputation - no diplomats or spies - no trade RJM at Sleeper's

that's evil

	08-06-2005 22:20									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If you want i can produce an "alterative civ2 rules and units set" for your democracy games, just to make it a little more interesting, i have made decent ones before, but i never really got much feedback on them,

	08-06-2005 22:34									#16
	Remove this text

quote: I would not recommend doing both of these options, unless we can find Xin Yu! If I might make a suggestion, I would recommend disallowing the use of Monarchy, and perhaps Democracy. I also like the idea of taking the first random start. I find that often these positions are very limiting in and of themselves. I like the idea of having no wonders AND no dips or spies. This would mean no embassies which would certainly make life difficult. No huts is another good option. I am also assuming we are limiting ourselves to a SS victory. So, I guess if I was making a vote it would be for: - 0% science - No Monarchy - No Democracy - No wonders - No dips/spies - No huts - First random start - Spotless Rep StuporMan

i dont have the mad skillz to play like that when i play i just play,instead of calculating everything out.i dont even bother with trade cause i know i can win by using what units i have better......but ill vote yes on that

and i always take 1st start and no reloading anyway

only 3 people have voted positive on the poll however.

	08-06-2005 22:53									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Cataphract887,

I was referring to using a random start instead of a deviously engineered start to make life difficult, and I was just being specific that it should be the first one handed to the creator of the game. If we start on the south pole with 10 free techs, so be it (this happened to me one time).

The only times I do not accept the first start I am handed is when A) I am trying a OCC or B) I am testing a certain strategy that requires some condition to be satisfied.

Hopefully we will get some more interest in this game so we can proceed.

StuporMan

	09-06-2005 11:46									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by StuporMan I would not recommend doing both of these options, unless we can find Xin Yu! If I might make a suggestion, I would recommend disallowing the use of Monarchy, and perhaps Democracy. I also like the idea of taking the first random start. I find that often these positions are very limiting in and of themselves. I like the idea of having no wonders AND no dips or spies. This would mean no embassies which would certainly make life difficult. No huts is another good option. I am also assuming we are limiting ourselves to a SS victory. So, I guess if I was making a vote it would be for: - 0% science - No Monarchy - No Democracy - No wonders - No dips/spies - No huts - First random start - Spotless Rep StuporMan

That's quite a combination. With 0% science, no huts and no dips/spies, the only way to get a new technology is by gift/tribute, trade or city capture. We might get a tech or two by gift/tribute, but we would have to capture quite a few cities before we reach trade. Unless we're very lucky with the start position we would be sending a mass of warriors against our first enemy city. If we were very unlucky with the start position, we'd be stuck on our own on an island, waiting for someone to make contact with us.

RJM at Sleeper's

	09-06-2005 11:48									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Broken_Erika If you want i can produce an "alterative civ2 rules and units set" for your democracy games, just to make it a little more interesting, i have made decent ones before, but i never really got much feedback on them,

Thanks for the offer. My preference is playing the standard rules and units with some additional (self imposed) constraints. However, let's see what others think.

RJM at Sleeper's

	09-06-2005 16:15									#20
	Support Apolyton

RJM,

quote: That's quite a combination. With 0% science, no huts and no dips/spies, the only way to get a new technology is by gift/tribute, trade or city capture.

You forgot one last option, Xinning. I said 0% science, I did not say no scientists. I also did not limit the number of cities. Therefore, we could research via a group of size 5 cities. So getting trade would be greatly delayed, but does not require conquest.

StuporMan

	10-06-2005 11:04									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by StuporMan RJM, You forgot one last option, Xinning. I said 0% science, I did not say no scientists. I also did not limit the number of cities. Therefore, we could research via a group of size 5 cities. So getting trade would be greatly delayed, but does not require conquest. StuporMan

Yes I did forget about scientists - and I also forgot that trade won't help unless you are contributing at least 1 beaker yourself.

It would be an intriguing set of constraints. The impact of the starting position would be quite important. I nominate StuporMan as starting despot. Perhaps you could post a poll to see whether there are enough people to make the game possible.

RJM at Sleeper's

	10-06-2005 17:27									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes Stuporman get us started

	10-06-2005 17:29									#23
	Tired of ads?

RJM,

I am honored to accept your nomination.

I have never participated in this type of game before, so before I begin I will need to know what my responsibilities would be and what I would need to do. I also need to know the minimum number of participants to make a game possible.

Basically any info on how this style of game is supposed to work would be useful to me at this point.

At any rate, I will wait to see if anyone else seconds your nomination before proceeding with anything.

Edit:
Well I guess Hydey has confirmed the nomination, so what do I need to do to get started?

StuporMan

	11-06-2005 12:09									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by StuporMan Basically any info on how this style of game is supposed to work would be useful to me at this point. StuporMan

In the "standard" democracy game only the leader plays the game moves. He or she plays an appropriate number of moves and then tells the population what the results were. This can be either a game save or some screen shots.

The leader can appoint advisors - or they can be elected by the citizens. Each advisor focuses on a particular aspect - science, city planning, military, etc.

The leader tells us when he (or she) plans to play and advisors suggest what to do next - eg what to build in which cities. If something unexpected happens during play, the leader can cope with it or can stop and call for a discussion.

Advisors can post polls on any aspect of the current situation. For example, how should we treat civ X? (war, treaty, alliance) Poll results are not binding, but if they are ignored, the leader should explain why and risks impeachment by the citizens.

The current situation and future strategy can be discussed by the citizens. In this case, it's probably worth discussing how we cope with the restrictions - particularly 0% science.

In extreme situations the citizens can vote a leader or advisor out of office. Originally we elected a new leader every month, but I suspect this time round anyone who is willing to be leader will be able to remain in office as long as they want to.

I think we need at least half a dozen people interested to make it work - a leader, 2 advisors and 3 citizens. We adjust the style of the game to suit the situation - particularly the number of players. In the last game when the numbers dropped, we switched to the "better ball" format in order to finish.

RJM at Sleeper's

	14-06-2005 22:39									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

To get the ball rolling, start a new thread "Democracy Game #5" and post the restrictions that were agreed on as well as any other game rules and of course the first save file.

Then start the polls to elect cabinet members.

President- plays game and has all final say of gameplay durring his turn-set. Turn-sets usually vary with the level of the game, strating with 20 turns then decreasing to 10 or 15 turns and in extended games where turns are crucial they can be dropped to 5 turns/ turn-set

Military adviser- supplies polls on military strategy
Trade/Science adviser- supplies polls on techs to research next and how best to distribute trade arrows
Foreign minister- polls and advises on interacting with AI civs
City planner- Polls and comments on what improvements to build. (walls, markets, wonders, etc) as well as possible sites for building new cities.


We have a nominee for Pres and now we need cabinet nominees. Generaly the Pres can play the first turns without a cabinet but the people should be polled on things like first city site and initial strategy. (Explore, 1 city settlers, early rep, etc.)

	14-06-2005 22:44									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW i will throw my hat in for an adviser spot, and would nominate RJM for city planner the help get us started.


RJM

	14-06-2005 22:47									#27
	Tired of ads?

Thanks for the clarification Zedd. Unfortunately it appears as though there will not be enough participants to start game #5. So far, we only have 3 interested, which is not enough for a Prez and Cabinet members. Unless a few more participants can be found, I am afraid we cannot start a new game

Hopefully we can get a few more people interested.

Edit: Well you posted at the same time I was posting. I guess that makes 4 of us playing. We are getting closer. Perhaps we can start a Democracy game with only a Prez and advisors

I will also second your nomination for advisor, and RJM's as well.

Thanks,
StuporMan

Last edited by StuporMan on 14-06-2005 at 23:09

	15-06-2005 10:17									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We still have only three people voting in the poll on starting a new game, and one of them abstained.

If we do start a new game, I would prefer to be a citizen, but I will take the role of city planner if that is what is needed to get the game going.

RJM at Sleeper's

	15-06-2005 16:52									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

RJM,

I was the abstainer. I figured that everyone would assume that I was interested in playing. Besides, the banana always needs a vote

So we are up to 4 if Zedd and Hydey are still interested. According to RJM we are still 2 people short. I guess I need to let my other personalities out so we can have more players , on second thought maybe thats a bad idea.

Maybe we can recruit a few more people for the demo-game. Or, we could go ahead and start with who we have and hope more join later. I am up for whatever you guys want to do.

StuporMan

	15-06-2005 17:00									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

We could "recruit" a few more, I think. we could IM a few past members such as MisterWhereItsAt, cavebear, john123, and of course others. The last game went stagnant and I think drove some off the thread. With a new and more traditional Demo game i think some would come back to it.

I could try this tonight and see what happens.