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Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 03:52
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THis is when you k now you have absolutely no defense.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 12:24 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Why didn't they just tell them she was trailer trash?


that's painfully obvious

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 12:25 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Isn't it great that the US army will let people like this in?


this is the reserves, not the real army

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 12:28 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I'll edit this stupid post.

Here's some readin for you all:

http://www.counterpunch.org/baker05152004.html

Last edited by Dis on 06-05-2005 at 12:42

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 12:30 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I don't know where else to post this, so I'll post it here.

The army reserve general in charge of the whole operation has been demoted by Bush.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/05/abu.ghraib/index.html

And I can't believe this England chick is going to get off of this abuse rap. Yeah I know, she'll be back before a grand jury, but I doubt she'll see prison time.

Dis is offline Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 12:36 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I find it strange the West Virginia has become the centerpiece of heroism and disgrace for this war.

First there was Jessica Lynch (anyone remember her) the supposed "hero".

And now Lyndie England- the disgrace

all from West Virginia.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:18
Arrow  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Read further down; she's a slut.


I am saying that this shouldn't be regarded as a bad thing. More power to her for that.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:25
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Surely, her slutfullness violates a number of military conduct rules and regulations?

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:28
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So is being gay. Your point?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:29
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Being a homosexual doesn't automatically mean you're sleeping around. Being a slut does.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:32
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*whoosh* that went right over your head, didn't it?

What I meant was that the fact that it violates milatary code or whatever, etc., doesn't mean that it's wrong. Unless you imply that the current status of gays de jure being banned from the military is peachy with you.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:36
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No, it didn't go over my head. People are trying to get the Pentagon to eliminate the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. No one is trying to get them to encourage rampant sluttery. These people recognize that there is no legitimate reason for the DADT rule. No one is even talking about relaxing policies on sleeping around because it is widely regarded as less than appropriate behaviour for our armed forces, certainly not something that should be related at the same level as DADT.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:38 Visit Dis's homepage!
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there are policies against soldiers sleeping around?

I heard stories of women having sex with the entire deck division on navy ships.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:43
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I could have sworn I've heard about cases were they were cited. I apologize if I'm mistaken.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:45 Visit Dis's homepage!
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it's against the rules to do it on military installations. for instance, we were not allowed to have sex on navy ships. and of course sex with officers and superior enlisted ranks (in your chain of command) were against fraternization rules.

Az is offline Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
No, it didn't go over my head. People are trying to get the Pentagon to eliminate the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. No one is trying to get them to encourage rampant sluttery. These people recognize that there is no legitimate reason for the DADT rule. No one is even talking about relaxing policies on sleeping around because it is widely regarded as less than appropriate behaviour for our armed forces, certainly not something that should be related at the same level as DADT.


ah, well, now we get back on topic: is it ok to be a 'slut'?

I say, if she was a man, she wouldn't be criticized at all -> double standards.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 14:10
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I've tried an informal search for military conduct codes regarding sluttery (obviously, using REAL words as my search terms ) and have had difficulty, so I shall maintain that I am ASSUMING there are codes against such behaviour.

quote:
Originally posted by Az
ah, well, now we get back on topic: is it ok to be a 'slut'?


No, it's not. For one thing, in a war zone getting pregnant is a serious lapse in judgement for both mother and father, making the mother unfit for combat, threatening the health of the child, and hoisting more responsibility on the shoulders of the father, a fellow soldier. Then there's the risk of spreading of sexually transmitted diseases, which threatens the combat readiness of units engaged in such activities. Then there's also more intangible things like conducting one's self in a proper manner. They are expected to be professionals and to conduct themselves as such. Perhaps it's just the Marines that are supposed to follow rigid behaviour programming when on-duty and/or in a war zone.

If people want to sleep around like sluts fine, but do it on your own time not on the USM's. You're in the military and in a war zone. Your sexual needs damn well better not interfere with your obligations to an all-volunteer military. You signed up for it and if you're having trouble getting enough tail because of your service, masturbate.

quote:
I say, if she was a man, she wouldn't be criticized at all -> double standards.


I agree.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 14:15 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I've tried an informal search for military conduct codes regarding sluttery (obviously, using REAL words as my search terms ) and have had difficulty, so I shall maintain that I am ASSUMING there are codes against such behaviour.



No, it's not. For one thing, in a war zone getting pregnant is a serious lapse in judgement for both mother and father, making the mother unfit for combat, threatening the health of the child, and hoisting more responsibility on the shoulders of the father, a fellow soldier. Then there's the risk of spreading of sexually transmitted diseases, which threatens the combat readiness of units engaged in such activities. Then there's also more intangible things like conducting one's self in a proper manner. They are expected to be professionals and to conduct themselves as such. Perhaps it's just the Marines that are supposed to follow rigid behaviour programming when on-duty and/or in a war zone.

If people want to sleep around like sluts fine, but do it on your own time not on the USM's. You're in the military and in a war zone. Your sexual needs damn well better not interfere with your obligations to an all-volunteer military. You signed up for it and if you're having trouble getting enough tail because of your service, masturbate.



I agree.


you don't understand, it is considered okay for women to get pregnant. The military will never say anything because they don't want to give the impression they are against women's rights.

In the navy, women would get pregnant on purpose just to get out of long deployments. And yes these women did get pregnant while actually out to sea.

It's not against the rules to have sexal behaviour with your peers (like I said it can't be NCO's if you are low enlisted and no officers or other enlisted in your direct chain of command)

There is nothing in the rules against an enlisted having sex with as many people as they can.

for officers it's a little different, as some behaviour could be considered conduct unbecoming of an officer.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 14:20
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I knew about the rules against officers*, but turning a blind eye to both low ranks' sluttery AND pregnancies for the purpose of reneging on your obligations?

*Edit: Which is to say I'm aware of the "conduct unbecoming" term is used in that situation; I didn't know if it could be applied to others.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 16:19
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Surely, her slutfullness violates a number of military conduct rules and regulations?


Like the prohibition against ******** really ugly chicks?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 16:21
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Please read through the rest of the thread before responding.



Edit: I'm going to bed now (4:25am pst) so I won't be answering for a while...

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 06-05-2005 16:29
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Az, no it's not double standards. Who says army is a democracy. First of all, men go to prossies and bang them, I don't care how much they do it but if they are back in time, no problem. Men can't get thesemvels pregnant, that's just the way it is. A woman soldier goes and gets herself pregnant when she is supposed to be in duty (serving the army)... get the hell out. Yes, pick up your things and leave with no pension, slut, or get rid of the baby.

If a man would go to prossies, get themselves STD that disables them from their active duties for a longer time of period, then they are in the same situation, and they should get punished the same the woman does. The point is they should both get punished. IT's a soldier's OWN responsibility to keep themselves in fit shape to prevent accidents etc and to make sure they can do their duty. Any kind of sex related things are unnecessary thus their OWN fault, thus breaking their code they swore to uphold, their duty and all that ****. Those people don't deserve to eat in the same table as the rest of the ones who are acting properly. They should eat with MPs dogs and fight it over. And then get kicked out of the army.

I thought it was a pro army, yes?? Time to meet some standards on social level, meaning screw the social contacts and welcome the training. Forget the weekend passes and fast food, welcome porridge and miserable weathers. BEing a soldier shouldn't be fun. The motivation comes from within. If you have heart, you show it when it counts (in training). You don't go 'uuh ooh, but I broke my gameboy'. No.. you go 'BRING IT ON BASTARDS!'. No fooling around, the only sexual pleasure you should have is the porn mag and the **** IF you managed to smuggle it without being detected. That's it.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:18
  Old Post 07-05-2005 00:21 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Az, no it's not double standards. Who says army is a democracy. First of all, men go to prossies and bang them, I don't care how much they do it but if they are back in time, no problem. Men can't get thesemvels pregnant, that's just the way it is. A woman soldier goes and gets herself pregnant when she is supposed to be in duty (serving the army)... get the hell out. Yes, pick up your things and leave with no pension, slut, or get rid of the baby.

If a man would go to prossies, get themselves STD that disables them from their active duties for a longer time of period, then they are in the same situation, and they should get punished the same the woman does. The point is they should both get punished. IT's a soldier's OWN responsibility to keep themselves in fit shape to prevent accidents etc and to make sure they can do their duty. Any kind of sex related things are unnecessary thus their OWN fault, thus breaking their code they swore to uphold, their duty and all that ****. Those people don't deserve to eat in the same table as the rest of the ones who are acting properly. They should eat with MPs dogs and fight it over. And then get kicked out of the army.

I thought it was a pro army, yes?? Time to meet some standards on social level, meaning screw the social contacts and welcome the training. Forget the weekend passes and fast food, welcome porridge and miserable weathers. BEing a soldier shouldn't be fun. The motivation comes from within. If you have heart, you show it when it counts (in training). You don't go 'uuh ooh, but I broke my gameboy'. No.. you go 'BRING IT ON BASTARDS!'. No fooling around, the only sexual pleasure you should have is the porn mag and the **** IF you managed to smuggle it without being detected. That's it.


how many times do I have to say it? There is no double standard. The military looks the other way when women get pregnant on duty. they are allowed to have sex. As I've said, many women purposely get pregnant to get out of long deployments overseas.

yes I know the goverment owns you in the military. But we weren't that much a slave.

enlisted women do not face disciplinary action for getting pregnant. And in many cases it won't hurt their careers (it will in some cases if they are a single mother because they won't be allowed sea duty)

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 00:56
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quote:
how many times do I have to say it? There is no double standard.


I didn't say that this was a military double standard. It's just a general anti "omg she's evil - and a slut too! " prudish attitudes.

She's evil and she should hang out in prison for what she did ... well.. in prison. Don't bring her sex life into this.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 01:04 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I agree with the last part. some attitudes towards women will remain. Militar life or civilian life.

and her sex life has nothing to do with her crimes in this case.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 01:08 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I posted a link above from a rather liberal website. But it does have a good point.

It seems right wingers are most upset with Lynddie England over the other abusers. My theory is that most right wingers have outdated attitudes towards women, and really have a problem seeing a woman in a dominate position over a man. This is why the leash photo draws the most outrage.

But I do believe she's a dumb hillbilly who let the other guys talk her in to this. Not that she should get off scott free. She deserves prison time. But it's obvious she's not smart enough or charismatic enough to be the one who orchestrated this whole thing.

Her actions do not upset me any more than Graner's actions did. I have no problem seeing a woman holding a naked man with a leash.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 01:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
I thought she was pregnant by one of the other guys in her unit.

huh huh he said "unit"


She's had the kid - with Graner, the supposed ringleader.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
There is nothing in the rules against an enlisted having sex with as many people as they can.

for officers it's a little different, as some behaviour could be considered conduct unbecoming of an officer.


For enlisteds too, it can be prosecuted under the general article of the UCMJ as conduct which is service discrediting, say, if the local base town's mayor's wife is caught doing some E3 buck and it becomes a big local stink.

An O4 from Ft. Sill actually got five years for doing the mayor's wife, but it wasn't prosecuted as conduct unbecoming an officer, it was prosecuted as conduct tending to bring discredit on the service, which applies to both officers and enlisteds. It's just that mayor's wives and such are probably more likely to bang officers than enlisted.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 01:40
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Man, this sucks.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 07-05-2005 02:41
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No mayor's wives for you, then, eh?

 
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