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DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:18
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Defense: (Pfc. Lynndie) England Oxygen-Deprived at Birth Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete



Next they'll be telling us the Devil made her do it...

What the hell do learning disabilities and illiteracy have to do with knowing Right from Wrong?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050503...r_abuse_england

By T.A. BADGER, Associated Press Writer 22 minutes ago

FORT HOOD, Texas - Defense lawyers sought leniency for Pfc. Lynndie England at a hearing Tuesday to determine her punishment in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal, with a psychologist testifying that the reservist was oxygen-deprived at birth, speech impaired and had trouble learning to read.

West Virginia school psychologist Dr. Thomas Denne — the first defense witness — said England's learning disabilities were identified when she was a kindergartner — and though she made progress in school, she continued needing special help.

"I knew I was going to know Lynndie England for the rest of my life," West Virginia school psychologist Dr. Thomas Denne said.

A military jury of five men and one woman was seated earlier Tuesday to make a sentencing recommendation for England, 22, who pleaded guilty Monday to seven counts of mistreating prisoners.

England accepted responsibility for the smiling, thumbs-up poses she struck for photographs taken at Abu Ghraib that made her the face of the prisoner abuse scandal.

The charges carry up to 11 years in prison. Prosecutors and the defense reached an agreement that caps the sentence at a lesser punishment; the length was not released. She will get the lesser of the military jury's sentence or the term agreed on in the plea bargain.

Prosecutor Capt. Chris Graveline told jurors in opening statements that England and a half-dozen other soldiers in the 372nd Military Police Company took great pleasure in humiliating the prisoners. The prosecution rested its sentencing case without calling any witnesses.

Graveline said England and Pvt. Charles Graner Jr. — the abuse ringleader and the father of England's child — knew it was wrong to mistreat the detainees and take the photos, "but they did it anyway for their own amusement." Graner is scheduled to testify for the defense.

In one of the photos, England held a leash looped around the neck of a hooded, naked prisoner. Another showed her next to nude prisoners stacked in a pyramid, while a third depicted England pointing at a prisoner's genitals as a cigarette dangled from her lips.

When asked by judge Col. James Pohl whether England knew right from wrong, Denne said she had a compliant personality and tended to listen to authority figures.

On Monday, England told Pohl that she initially resisted taking part in the abuse at the Baghdad prison, but that she succumbed to peer pressure.

"I had a choice, but I chose to do what my friends wanted me to," she said.

Graner was convicted in January on abuse charges and is serving a 10-year prison sentence. Four other Abu Ghraib guards and two low-level military intelligence officers have entered guilty pleas in connection with the scandal, with sentences ranging from no time to 8 1/2 years. Spc. Sabrina Harman, a former Abu Ghraib guard, is scheduled to go to trial at Fort Hood next week.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Increase Your PM Length

Whatever works.

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:26
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She should be oxygen deprived for a bit longer - about 8 hours methinks

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:28
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Why didn't they just tell them she was trailer trash?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:30
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It's good to see these people are actually judged, and condemned.

However, I wonder to what extent they're highly responsible, and to what extent they're scapegoats.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:31
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That England chick seems like a case of diminished responsibility if ever there was one. Word is that she set herself up as target practice for the whole regiment.

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:32
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Isn't it great that the US army will let people like this in?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
However, I wonder to what extent they're highly responsible, and to what extent they're scapegoats.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 03:36
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quote:
Isn't it great that the US army will let people like this in?


You think people like Kuci or Jaguar would enlist? \

Will Wheaton to the rescue!!!

Grandpa Troll is offline Grandpa Troll

Immortal
I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 05:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
It's good to see these people are actually judged, and condemned.

However, I wonder to what extent they're highly responsible, and to what extent they're scapegoats.


When I was a Police Officer and arrested or ticketed someone, I would have to listen to the old "Dont you have better things to do" routine speech..

I would tell them if they were not breaking the law then they would not be charged.

She was wrong and she should pay. Period.

Abuse is wrong.
Period.

Is there perhaps someone up the chain aslo involved?

absolutely and they should all be held accountable.

If someone in charge did nothing and was aware then they should be charged.

If someone was in charge and failed to execute the duties of their office indeed they should be charged.

As an American I am ashamed this went on.

Is this being done by other countries? perhaps..but doesnt give us the right.

I know a lawyers job is to defend of prosecute depending but for real one of the problems with our system is a good lawyer,the right jury and the right witness and that old picture can be painted just right and in the right light will sell for a son..

shame when a guilty party gets away

fortuately this wont

Gramps

Vince278 is offline Vince278
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Dec 2002
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Word is that she set herself up as target practice for the whole regiment.


At the risk of sounding naive, what does that mean?
Have a link to the source?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:50 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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I thought she was pregnant by one of the other guys in her unit.

huh huh he said "unit"

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
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  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:52
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Oh.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:53
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I just hope the presiding judge recognizes this for the lame defense move it is.

Tattila the Hun is offline Tattila the Hun
Prince
Tornio
Oct 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Vince278


At the risk of sounding naive, what does that mean?
Have a link to the source?


Either livefire practice, carrying around a big buls-eye, or she couldn't/wouldn't keep her pants on. Both things are possible.

Can't seem to remember, if she is particularly atractive or not... But I quess, after long enogh time, you'd bang a monkey, if it was female.

(Note, "you", not "me". )

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:57
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You know, court's have removed children from mentally retarded parents before. If the defense is going to use this as their excuse for leniency, someone should probably remove the child from her custody once it is born. Clearly, her oxygen deprivation at birth and subsiquent brain damage made her ability to tell the difference between Right and Wrong extremely unreliable. This puts her children in danger of coming to harm.

Tattila the Hun is offline Tattila the Hun
Prince
Tornio
Oct 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 11:59
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Why did they enlist her in the first place? If she was deprived, should she carry a gun?

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 12:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
(Note, "you", not "me". )


I did my share while I was in the USAF but not as many as everyone else. At least the AF ladies were prettier on the average.

About your sig line - How about Oscar Meyer's Civilization?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 12:04
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Maybe this can also be used to attack the Americans with Disabilities Act. There are clearly some places that the mentally retarded have no business being.*



*That said, the disclaimer: This is all said with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I have nothing against the ADA or the mentally retarded, but the decision by her defense lawyers to use this as an excuse for her behaviour I find to be particularly offensive. And not in the good, Funny-Ha-Ha-Harmlessly-Ribbing-Someone way...

Tattila the Hun is offline Tattila the Hun
Prince
Tornio
Oct 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Vince278


I did my share while I was in the USAF but not as many as everyone else. At least the AF ladies were prettier on the average.

About your sig line - How about Oscar Meyer's Civilization?


Nah, that's for wieners.

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 12:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Nah, that's for wieners.


ravagon is offline ravagon
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Australia
Sep 1999
time: 13:18
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs

*That said, the disclaimer: This is all said with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I have nothing against the ADA or the mentally retarded, but the decision by her defense lawyers to use this as an excuse for her behaviour I find to be particularly offensive. And not in the good, Funny-Ha-Ha-Harmlessly-Ribbing-Someone way...


If you find that 'offensive' then I really suggest that you stop taking any notice of any legal proceedings in general, otherwise you're going to be spending a gawdawful lot of your time offended.
Even if she were to be found mentally 'diminished' or whatever fancy-schmancy term they use these days, that same lawyer would be arguing that she'd 'recovered' a few days later in front of another judge to try and have that overturned too.
Defense lawyers in general

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 01:05
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Astounding.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050504...r_abuse_england

quote:
Judge Throws Out England's Guilty Plea

By T.A. BADGER, Associated Press Writer 48 minutes ago

FORT HOOD, Texas - A military judge on Wednesday threw out Pfc. Lynndie England's guilty plea to prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib, saying he was not convinced that she knew her actions were wrong at the time.

Col. James Pohl entered a plea of not guilty for England to a charge of conspiring with Pvt. Charles Graner Jr. to maltreat detainees at the Baghdad-area prison.

The mistrial for the 22-year-old reservist, who appeared in some of the most notorious photographs from the 2003 abuse scandal, kicks the case back to the military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding.

The action came after Graner, the reputed ringleader of the abuse, testified as a defense witness at England's sentencing hearing that pictures he took of England holding a naked prisoner on a leash at Abu Ghraib were meant to be used as a legitimate training aid for other guards.

Other photos showed England standing next to nude prisoners stacked in a pyramid and pointing at a prisoner's genitals.

When England pleaded guilty Monday, she told the judge she knew that the pictures were being taken purely for the amusement of the guards.

Pohl said the two statements could not be reconciled.

"You can't have a one-person conspiracy," the judge said before he declared the mistrial and dismissed the sentencing jury.

Under military law, the judge could formally accept her guilty plea only if he was convinced that she knew at the time that what she was doing was illegal.

By rejecting the plea to the conspiracy charge, Pohl canceled the entire plea agreement.

During defense questioning, Graner said he looped the leash around the prisoner's shoulders as a way to coax him out of a cell, and that it slipped up around his neck. He said he asked England to hold the strap while he took photos that he could show to other guards later to teach them this prisoner-handling technique.

At that point Pohl halted Graner's testimony and admonished the defense for admitting evidence that ran counter to England's plea on the conspiracy charge and one count of maltreating detainees.

The judge did not discuss the other five counts to which England had pleaded guilty.

Graner, who is said to be the father of England's infant son, was found guilty in January and is serving a 10-year prison term for his role in the scandal.

In a handwritten note given to reporters Tuesday, Graner had said he wanted England to fight the charges.

"Knowing what happened in
Iraq, it was very upsetting to see Lynn plead guilty to her charges," he wrote. "I would hope that by doing so she will have a better chance at a good sentence."

Graner maintains that he and the other Abu Ghraib guards were following orders from higher-ranking interrogators when they abused the detainees.


At least the judge recognizes that this goes beyond "a few bad apples," still...

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 01:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
That England chick seems like a case of diminished responsibility if ever there was one. Word is that she set herself up as target practice for the whole regiment.


I surely hope you're not insinuating anything.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 01:39
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Read further down; she's a slut.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 02:46
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quote:
What the hell do learning disabilities and illiteracy have to do with knowing Right from Wrong?


Maybe she has Moral ADD and just gets them backwards?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 02:47
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Got spare money?

She was making porn movies while on duty.

I know that war sometimes lowers mens' standards (the whole "spread your seed now before you get blown up" thing), but anyone sticking it in that dog has serious mental problems.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Astounding.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050504...r_abuse_england

At least the judge recognizes that this goes beyond "a few bad apples," still...


Eh, if the judge has any doubts about the merits or sincerity of the guilty plea at all, he should throw it out.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-05-2005 03:06
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quote:
Eh, if the judge has any doubts about the merits or sincerity of the guilty plea at all, he should throw it out.


Shouldn't you be busy in your private bathroom?

Riesstiu IV is offline Riesstiu IV
Settler

Nov 2003
time: 05:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 03:49
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This reminds me of a thread at Somethingawful.com forum wherein an old boyfriend implied her ***** smelt of fish.

 
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