10-05-2005 04:02									#31
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You know what they say about people who are fixated with mecha?

	10-05-2005 04:29									#32
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Mechs have no place in civ, as it is a historical empire building game that usually ends around 2010, so future tech is a bit silly.
If it's something that is about to be discovered, or just around the corner in scientific circles, then maybe that should be included?

	10-05-2005 10:58									#33
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Giant Death Robots or something...

That was a funny thread.

The difference between that thread and this one is that the GDR thread was tongue-in-cheek. On the other hand, Chimura seems to be pretty serious about mechs.

People should realize that not everything from Japanese anime is realistically feasible. Except Pokemon of course.

	10-05-2005 20:54									#34
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Mmm, tanks do fire in movement, in fact, in a fairly plain terrain like a desert, the faster the tank goes the better coz its more stable. I saw that in the invasion to Irak by CNN Live!

	10-05-2005 21:55									#35
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You saw them moving and firing, but did you also saw them hitting something while doing so?

This said, laserpinging goes a long way for accuracy, so it's possible.

	31-07-2005 20:53									#36
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detele

Last edited by Chimura on 01-08-2005 at 01:16

	31-07-2005 20:59									#37
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quote: power assist suits allow marines to carry heavier armor and more firepower (3 inch steel plates and 50 caliber chainguns) while negating the manuvering disadvantage that carrying all that gear would normaly have on a soldier.

Alternatively, they could use an armoured car.

	31-07-2005 22:44									#38
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mod the base game for your fantasy scenario.

	31-07-2005 22:47									#39
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I begin to wonder if people don't see that this can't be serious...

	01-08-2005 00:22									#40
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patience, my young paduan.

i think jar-jar could be onto something here,..

	01-08-2005 00:43									#41
	Re: The Theoretical Role/position of mechs on the battlefield Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

... is not in civ.

	01-08-2005 00:56									#42
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I wonder if Chimura is aware that Civ4 won´t be MechCommander3?

	01-08-2005 01:06									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg I wonder if Chimura is aware that Civ4 won´t be MechCommander3?

Good one.

I would not mind if it was as bug-free as Mechcommander 2, though...

	01-08-2005 01:27									#44
	Remove this text

That would be nice

	01-08-2005 02:54									#45
	Re: delete thread Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Chimura Mods, please delete this thread, no serious interest has been seen

I suspect a new post at the bottom of this thread(like it becomes now) would have been more effective to get it closed, but a deletion is not probable.

	01-08-2005 03:05									#46
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i think modern infantry weapons are fast making armored vehicles obsolete, at least until we get some sort of next level armor plating. even the depleted uranium sheeting they use on some of those vehicles isn't good enough.

if we were to fight an actual modern war where everyone agreed not to use nukes, we'd probably end up entirly on foot and in cheapo apcs after all the tanks got blown to hell rather quickly.

	01-08-2005 06:21									#47
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Man, and when I checked out this thread, I thought he was referring to the role of MECHanized Infantry in Civ4 (as opposed to them simply being left in your cities in Civ2 and Civ3 ). For the record, I think the physics-as we currently understand it-completely rules out the possibility of the mechs from Battletech (i.e. weight distribution over a given area). However, I do think that powered armour is within the realms of possibility-though possibly not for at least a few more decades.
Anyway, just my feelings on the matter.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	01-08-2005 06:46									#48
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sadly, no, a discussion of mechanized infantry would have been far more interesting.

	01-08-2005 15:35									#49
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and now for somrthing completely different


MI with the new assault weapons with the video link

you can see the battle from their perspective

	01-08-2005 17:32									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 And if you actually apply physics, the foot size would have to be enormous to carry any reasonable weight.

Actually, if you do the maths, you'll find that the ground pressure of a modern tank is typically about 1/10 that of an ordinary unencumbered human, which is also about an order of magnitude lower than a typical commercially available estate car (station wagon).

Tanks have a ridiculously low ground pressure compared to what you might expect. Humans will sink into the ground long before tanks will. The crucial difference is that humans are usually smart enough and agile enough to get out quickly.

For slightly different reasons, total weight can be an issue. While the ground pressure on any given square inch is low, when crossing bridges, the total weight gets placed on the structural supports of the bridge, creating a psi on those that is usually above design considerations. In aerated ground and land with near-surface caverns/excavations, a similar issue is present.

	01-08-2005 19:10									#51
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Errrm, weren't there mechs in Call to power? I think I remember a big red thingie on two legs. Actually I wouldn't mind having a mech unit in the game, but somewhere after future tech #20

	01-08-2005 23:07									#52
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Using CtP as an example for anything to use in Civ is a seriously flawed premise.

Mechs are retarded and they suck. The Galactic Empire learned why mechs are such awful units when theirs were undone by teddy bears with rocks and sticks.

	01-08-2005 23:45									#53
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quote: Originally posted by lajzar Actually, if you do the maths, you'll find that the ground pressure of a modern tank is typically about 1/10 that of an ordinary unencumbered human, which is also about an order of magnitude lower than a typical commercially available estate car (station wagon).

Great for a tank. It is low, both it's "feet" are rather huge, and never have to be raised. Even if standing steel, a 100 tonnes mech would put more pressure down that a tank. If it rises a leg, you get double as much. If it tries to walk, or run, it will land on it's a$$, with the one leg burried in the ground. The area of the foot touching the ground is too small in most "designs" FASA sells in their books. Maybe, just maybe, the small ones would not always sink like that.

quote: Originally posted by lajzar Tanks have a ridiculously low ground pressure compared to what you might expect. Humans will sink into the ground long before tanks will. The crucial difference is that humans are usually smart enough and agile enough to get out quickly.

But humans are more agile than any machine. If you want to compare, try running through mud. Not shallow mud, but something deep, at least 0,5 m thick. This is a mech on normal ground. You might be able to walk it one small step after another (If you rise a leg for too long you sink.) but any vehicle is much faster than that so there is no point in doing it.

And there is the simple fact that we have absolutely no material that can carry the dynamic movement of 95 tonnes over it in a fashion a foot would. Yes, we can put that much and more on a concrete pillar but it shatters because of earthquakes. Now imagine trying to run. Really, it is simple physics.

(And no, I am not able to do the counting. I just walk on small-grain sand every now and then. It happens to be much more difficult than crawling...)

	02-08-2005 09:01									#54
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I am not sure what is the exact definition of a Mech, but if remote controlled or completely self sufficient two legged military robot of relatively small size (Terminator type?) can be called a mech then it may have sense to have it.
There are few advantages:
1) Urban warfare - tanks do not cut for it. Mech can enter buildings and staff.
2) No need for human - saves solder lives.
3) Even if there is human inside, then it is better protected then just a solder.

Their advantage over tank is the small size, not the big size, as typically portrayed in most movies.

	02-08-2005 11:31									#55
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quote: Originally posted by MxM I am not sure what is the exact definition of a Mech, but if remote controlled or completely self sufficient two legged military robot of relatively small size (Terminator type?) can be called a mech then it may have sense to have it.

No, this definition is wrong. The things TMed as mechs are gigantic machines, of 10-20 metres height, and up to 100 tonnes weight. This is why I am talking about mere physics killing the very design. Smaller (much smaller) machines of this kind are doable.