05-05-2005 20:20									#1
	MY-2170 Planning & Execution Thread Get a bigger avatar today!

Some early suggestions for 2170:

Send the B-4 (or even the F-6) in Gagarin Memorial to flame that fungul tower 4 tiles south - maybe softening it first with an arty barrage from the Njord. It's an easy 60 credits in the kitty

Orders for the 2 MT tomcats? Build a road over the mine, then continue a road to 2Nuts, de-fungussing 63:31 en route?

Send SC3's B-4 (currently on CAP at MT's forest/mineral tile} home to 2Nuts via west of the Rio Rojo to see what Yang might be up to there. He's been pretty good at keeping his troops on his side of the demarcation line, but we haven't looked there yet

Call up Zak to get Lal's next tech from him. (I'm betting its Advanced Subatomic - his priorities are Explore (he's already 40% there) and Discover (30%). He's 31% build and 28% Conquer. Next Discover tech for him is the level 3 AST tech. It's the same level as his next Conquer tech (Adaptive Doctrine) and Build tech (Adaptive Economics) but they aren't weighted so importantly for him as Explore/Discover techs

In any event, any of these 2 would be OK for us. One (AST) is a stepping stone to Silksteel Armour and Applied Relativity (do we want to snag the Supercollider and go for research?) while the other gives us Marine Detachment to further strengthen our navy as well as being a stepping stone to AMA and PSA and the Hunter-Seeker Special Project

	07-05-2005 18:33									#2
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Leave of Absence

I'll be out of commission from about an hour's time until Tuesday

Heading into "the boonies" on a golf junket and won't take my laptop with me due to expected sporadic internet connection chances.

G.

	08-05-2005 03:16									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Send the B-4 (or even the F-6) in Gagarin Memorial to flame that fungul tower 4 tiles south - maybe softening it first with an arty barrage from the Njord. It's an easy 60 credits in the kitty

Sounds great. I'd also suggest to bombard with the GeneralTacticus then though. The Njord with its laser weapon hardly does any damage.

quote: Orders for the 2 MT tomcats? Build a road over the mine, then continue a road to 2Nuts, de-fungussing 63:31 en route? Send SC3's B-4 (currently on CAP at MT's forest/mineral tile} home to 2Nuts via west of the Rio Rojo to see what Yang might be up to there. He's been pretty good at keeping his troops on his side of the demarcation line, but we haven't looked there yet

quote: Call up Zak to get Lal's next tech from him. (I'm betting its Advanced Subatomic - his priorities are Explore (he's already 40% there) and Discover (30%). He's 31% build and 28% Conquer. Next Discover tech for him is the level 3 AST tech. It's the same level as his next Conquer tech (Adaptive Doctrine) and Build tech (Adaptive Economics) but they aren't weighted so importantly for him as Explore/Discover techs

Lal's priorities appear to be Build & Conquer though when I check them in his profile. And Zak's Build. I guess Buster changed their priorities.(?)

quote: Leave of Absence

Have fun!


I played a 2170 turn in the simulator btw. Here are the notes:

Production

• SC2: set production to cDF
  
• AU: set production to CDF. Change Ironholm production to a former then I guess.
  
• Hurry OA production with 6c.
  

	09-05-2005 15:56									#4
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Extra and changed moves if we want to build a secret project in MY 2171 (I'd suggest in Santiago Citadel):

• Let the GH crawler mine the mine near Minas Tirith. Move the fungal gin freight that's currently working it a few tiles up and harvest nutrients or something.
  
• Upgrade one of the two crawlers on (61.15) or (64.18) to a 0-2t-1 crawler. This way we could hurry the SP with the fungal gin freight, the 0-2t-1, the other unupgraded crawler near OA, and a second unupgraded crawler east of SC4.
  
• Hurry the crawler in GH for 30c to be able to replace the lost crawlers faster.

Btw, I thought of a more expensive crawler than the fungal gin freight: the 0-2t-10 supply needlejet. Cost 210 minerals. Downside is you can't harvest with it - else it would crash - but I assume the sixty extra minerals of cost and the added mobility make up for that.

	10-05-2005 02:11									#5
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Holy **** thats (the 0-2t-10 supply needlejet) possible? LOL wow we should really build it and show it off just to show them how "extravagantly well funded" our warfare development corp is.

	11-05-2005 05:31									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Lal's priorities appear to be Build & Conquer though when I check them in his profile. And Zak's Build. I guess Buster changed their priorities.(?)

he's changed most of them:

Faction .......Default Priorities ......ACDG3 Priorities
Gaians............. Explore................... Explore, Discover
Hive................ Conquer, Build......... Explore, Conquer
University......... Discover ................Build
Angels............. Discover, Build .........Discover, Build
Morgan............ Build .....................Explore, Conquer
Sparta............. Discover, Conquer .......... ???
PeaceKeepers.... Explore, Discover.... Build, Conquer

	11-05-2005 05:46									#7
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So Morgan's late again - I wonder what their excuse will be this time?

EDIT: what a balls-up in the turnplaying thread!!

Last edited by Googlie on 11-05-2005 at 07:07

	11-05-2005 07:46									#8
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Redone turn is now up!!

Open turn,

• Zak calls us and is pleased to deliver Cyberethics to us
  
• Morgan has offered, pre-accepted, 98 credits and a truce - I just ended the commlink session while we reach concensus
  
• The Angels have put Neural Grafting and Adaptive Doctrine in the diplobox (I surmise that they got them last turn and were checking to see if we had them, and forgot to delete them)
  
• We are now being prompted for our next tech Choice is: Cent Emparthy; Plan econ (Ascetic Virtues SP): Superstring (Chaos weapons): Neural grafting and Adaptive Doctrine

	11-05-2005 07:54									#9
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HGmm - found the thread

3 votes for NG >>> MMI
2 votes for AMA
1 vote for PE

But given that we can now trade for NG, I'd throw my vote from NG to PE, and either negotiate the AV away from the Angels, or just screw them and build it anyway

that creates a 3-way tie, with 2 votes each

	11-05-2005 08:03									#10
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I selected Planetary Economics (we'll have it in 2 years) figuring we can get the others through trade, purchase, bullying or theft

I also accepted the truce with Morgan and the 98 ec's due payment. Our reserves now stand at 318 credits

EDIT 1: And realized that Zak had obtained Adapt Doc from lal, so called him back and "it is my pleasure etc" - got Adapt Doc as well

EDIT 2: Before cashing in the AA, how about we trade Cyberethics to the Angels (which is what they are currently researching) for Neural Grafting?

Last edited by Googlie on 11-05-2005 at 08:32

	11-05-2005 08:39									#11
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Very interesting. Using the parallel play for AI diplomatic affairs gambit:

Zak can't call off his vendetta against Morgan, 'cos it was Morgan who initiated it (!!!)

Lal won't call off his 'cos "I have accepted payment for his destruction"

	11-05-2005 10:30									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Upgrade one of the two crawlers on (61.15) or (64.18) to a 0-2t-1 crawler. This way we could hurry the SP with the fungal gin freight, the 0-2t-1, the other unupgraded crawler near OA, and a second unupgraded crawler east of SC4

If we want to have the PDL in place when we open 2172, then we need to upgrade either of the 61:15 or the 64:18 crawler as M suggests ('cos either can reach SC2 next year, as they can't move this year of upgrading) and use the unimproved other crawler plus the new crawler from Fort Buster moved this turn into position nearby SC2

the PDL costs 300 minerals, and we get 150 from the freighter, 80 from the improved trance synthcrawler, plus 30 each from the 2 others (totalling 290) plus the contribution the base itself makes through its minerals output.

To avoid wasted minerals, we can take SC2 workers off the forests they are currently working, and let the two en-route crawlers work them for their home bases while they are in transit

But let's not tip our hand this turn, eh? Leave SC2 producing something that takes only 1 turn - a CDF for example - then next turn just do the instavuild. no-one else has started the PDL, although we, Lal and Zak all have it. The Angels are currently researching it, but have been doing so for a few turns, so let's hope they don't get it next year and instabuild the PDL (It'd be a waste of an SP for them, though, as they already get the 3 faction techshare as their bonus)

	11-05-2005 11:17									#13
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Quick reply here.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie But let's not tip our hand this turn, eh? Leave SC2 producing something that takes only 1 turn - a CDF for example - then next turn just do the instavuild. no-one else has started the PDL, although we, Lal and Zak all have it. The Angels are currently researching it, but have been doing so for a few turns, so let's hope they don't get it next year and instabuild the PDL (It'd be a waste of an SP for them, though, as they already get the 3 faction techshare as their bonus)

I don't see how the Morgans could pull it off even if they got the tech somehow, they don't have any upgraded crawlers do they? I do fear for the Gaians however, they would love this wonder and might have some popped supercrawlers.

Just for reference, how much would it take to build it this turn? I wouldn't be opposed to cashing in our Ogre(s). Their x2 police powers aren't so special any more, and I'm pretty sure they give a lot of minerals when "harvested", am I right?

	11-05-2005 11:40									#14
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Yay, techs for free!

And of course try to trade with the angels before cashing in the Artifact. Since we are getting another tech in 2 turns, how about waiting until it is there as well? Could be a realy nice leapfrog.

As to the answers from Zak and Lal, those are good for our purposes (keeping the peace shaky), so who cares? We just ned to give some explanations at the conference.

	11-05-2005 19:57									#15
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Some unit movements:

MY ¡V 2170

• AU: Used the MM plus its crawler and 18 credits to rush a sea fungiforemr. (Rassigned worlers to forests as I didn¡¦t want the base to grow and go into riot, thus negating the build ¡V can reassign next year when it produces a cdf)
  
• Moved the Fungal gin freighter at MT north to 1 tile SW of SC2 ¡V works forest there ¡V ready for instabuild PDL next turn (Moved SC2 worker off forest and onto 2nut rainy river tile)
  
• Upgraded crawler at 54:18 (90 credits) ready for PDL
  
• Brought FB's crawler into range of SC2, crawling 2 forest minerals en route
  
• Brought GH's crawler back 2 tiles, into range of SC2, continues crawling nuts from that new position (with no road thru the monolith north of SC2, the 61:15 crawler would have been stranded next turn just outside SC2.) --- so now all elements are in position to instabuild the PDL in 2171 (SC2 will grow to size 5 next turn, but the CDF currently being commissioned there will negate any drone activity for citizen # 5 and # 6)
  
• Tacticus and Njord bombard that fungal tower ¡V now 20% damaged. Sent out the B-4, but odds were only 2:2, so circled, and sent the F-6 (with 5:4 odds) Unfortunately, F-6 got destroyed in the attempt, - so then mopped up with the B-4
  
• Vlademorei returned to Gagarin memorial for repairs
  
• Sent the Disco Volante eastwards, ending below a seapod south of Gaialand (in Unity Bay) just outside a Gaian base boundary
  
• moved Iaci to within 2 tiles of the seapodpop identified for popping
  
• Moved the cruiser transport (Heimdall) and escort (Invincible) plus the foil transport up into the central Arcadian ocean (We should send the heimdall with its 2 units to 2Nuts for Hive duty or wormhunting, and the foil trannie to Iaci to pick up the Gin Freighter)
  
• Moved the Pegasus thru the Stuyx Channel, jkeeping tabs on that Hive transport ¡V it seems to be heading Morgan¡¦s way
  
• B-4 providing CAP at the MT minforest tile meanders back to 2Nuts to see if any Hive troops lurking in the fungus there (none)

Attachment: 2170 - hive expeditionary force.jpg
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

	11-05-2005 20:21									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]B-4 providing CAP at the MT minforest tile meanders back to 2Nuts to see if any Hive troops lurking in the fungus there (none)

See what I meant? We might have a really peaceful turn or two before us.

By the way, do we choose the Knowledge economy setting, now that we can?

As to the Gaians having anything popped, just remember what we were doing around their territory all the time.

	11-05-2005 20:26									#17
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We'd get Plan econ next turn if we did, and could instabuild 2 SP's (the PDL and the AV)

That'd be a signal of our strength (but would likely tee off the Angels)

What do we want to do, in this context? Offer the A's Doc Init - or a cruiser hull - in exchange for letting us off the hook with the AV? (and if we don't mind the proliferation of the 2 extra sea tiles movement, Lal will trade NG for Doc Init right now)

	11-05-2005 20:30									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie What do we want to do, in this context? Offer the A's Doc Init - or a cruiser hull - in exchange for letting us off the hook with the AV? (and if we don't mind the proliferation of the 2 extra sea tiles movement, Lal will trade NG for Doc Init right now)

Would the hull allow them anything more than just using that one unit? I have no knowledge of how this works.

	11-05-2005 21:06									#19
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No - they can reverse engineer using the hull,.. the cruiser will appear in their string of units in the design workshop, and they can click on that, which brings it up, then take off the weapon and add a probe, or a transport module to it.

MY-2170 Continued ……………..

Further moves:

• 2 Tomcats at MT moved onto mine and commenced roadbuilding
  
• B-4 from MT takes over CAP duty on forested mineral square
  
• Argonite sentry moved into Ironholm and Ironholm.s production changed to a Wombat fungiformer
  
• IH’s hoplite moves east to the fungus fields, likewise with IH’s other hoplite on 0:16
  
• B-4 at RG lands in Messena and crew don riot gear
  
• Hoplite and CDF switches made in GH/SC4 and SC4/SC2 region
  
• Iaci worker reassigned to a forest for greater mineral output
  
• Argos worker reassigned to a forest
  
• Rio Grande and Messens workers reassigned
  
• Moved GH’s 3/1/0 worker to the forest 1/2/2 tile. If we get a CDF there we can let the base grow as the 3/1/0 tile gives a 2 nut surplus for instant pop growth
  
• FS nut crawler moved to AU coast to harvest coastal forest
  
• VV’s sensor-forest crawler moved north to harvest nuts, leaving that forested tile for the OA new worker

Last edited by Googlie on 19-05-2005 at 19:15

	11-05-2005 21:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie No - they can reverse engineer using the hull,.. the cruiser will appear in their string of units in the design workshop, and they can click on that, which brings it up, then take off the weapon and add a probe, or a transport module to it.

In that case, it is worth almost as much as the tech itself. I would prefer not to give it to anyone. After all, they could build a hull and resell.

My precious navy should not have to worry about other fast-going vessels.

	11-05-2005 21:19									#21
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well, they were willing to accept a "no onward trading" clause (funny how their initial idealistic position of "free flow of information etc" gets corrupted as the game progresses)

the advantages of just giving a hull are that they get the benefits of the tech without being able to move further up the tree using that tech.

But i agree - it's nice to have a monopoly on the +2 movement (although Yang is currently researching it)

And what a crying shame that the AI can't mpount a better attack - yang's trannie with 2 units will get decmated by the Morgan fdefenders - heck even throwing a couple of missile interceptors would destroy one unit and let them mind control the other.

Off topic: I hope that if there is a SMAC II that they build the capability for the AI to assemble multiple units and provide air cover, much as we do. I've found that civ3 does a better job at that than any of the other civ-style games in the offing

	11-05-2005 21:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Leave SC2 producing something that takes only 1 turn - a CDF for example

SC2 needs one anyway if we want to popboom the base to size seven.

quote: Tacticus and Njord bombard that fungal tower ¡V now 20% damaged. Sent out the B-4, but odds were only 2:2, so circled, and sent the F-6 (with 5:4 odds) Unfortunately, F-6 got destroyed in the attempt, - so then mopped up with the B-4

Should we build another F-6 as replacement in Fort Buster or Fort Superiority or so? (If possible, should check midturn save)

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 See what I meant? We might have a really peaceful turn or two before us.

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 By the way, do we choose the Knowledge economy setting, now that we can?

Since we're no longer running Fundy anyway, running KNowledge only gives us advantages.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Argonite sentry moved into Ironholm and Ironholm.s production changed to a Wombat fungiformer

I'd like to strongly advise against building fungicidal formers. Personally I consider the fungicide ability rather useless. When you compare cost/benefit, the fungicidal ability is only somewhat useful if the former constantly removes fungus, doing nothing else. Which AFAIK we won't be doing. In all other cases, three normal formers are much more effective and efficient than two fungicidal formers (both 6 min rows).

	11-05-2005 21:44									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Moved the cruiser transport (Heimdall) and escort (Invincible) plus the foil transport up into the central Arcadian ocean (We should send the heimdall with its 2 units to 2Nuts for Hive duty or wormhunting, and the foil trannie to Iaci to pick up the Gin Freighter)

What would you think of the other way around? The two units load on the Pegasus and sail to 2NS, while the faster Heimdall picks up the fungal gin freight. As far as I can tell the fastest way to build the Ascetic Virtues would be to ship the fungal gin freight to Tegea Harbour, and build the AV there or in Fort Liberty. There are already some crawlers in that area, so that doesn't form a problem.

	11-05-2005 21:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie well, they were willing to accept a "no onward trading" clause (funny how their initial idealistic position of "free flow of information etc" gets corrupted as the game progresses) the advantages of just giving a hull are that they get the benefits of the tech without being able to move further up the tree using that tech. But i agree - it's nice to have a monopoly on the +2 movement (although Yang is currently researching it)

I think we need to seriously consider the consequences of just building the project without asking them...

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Off topic: I hope that if there is a SMAC II that they build the capability for the AI to assemble multiple units and provide air cover, much as we do. I've found that civ3 does a better job at that than any of the other civ-style games in the offing

Not really. The Civ3 AI is generally better at making war, yes. But it is still stupid, and still loses most overseas invasions. It is overall much better if it can go on land. The difference is the same as in SMAC, I think.

	11-05-2005 22:12									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac What would you think of the other way around? The two units load on the Pegasus and sail to 2NS, while the faster Heimdall picks up the fungal gin freight. As far as I can tell the fastest way to build the Ascetic Virtues would be to ship the fungal gin freight to Tegea Harbour, and build the AV there or in Fort Liberty. There are already some crawlers in that area, so that doesn't form a problem.

Good point - we don't urgently need the units in 2NS, but we'll nedd the gin freighter at its destination asap

we should prolly upgrade 1 crawler at Tegea right now in anticipation of the AV build

	11-05-2005 22:17									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 I think we need to seriously consider the consequences of just building the project without asking them...

Here's what we agreed to - see point # 2:

quote: Extracted from the Angels-Sparta Embassy logs Summarizing all details: 1. Data Angels and Gaians agree for not undertaking building the Citizen's Defence Force SP. 2. Spartans agree for not undertaking building the Ascetic Virtues SP. 3. Spartan Federation transfers Ethical Calculus and Social Psych to Data Angels at the closest turn. 4. Ethical Calculus will not be charged with embargo regarding its transfer to Gaian Union. 5. Data Angels switch their research effort to Intellectual Integrity and as soon as it is completed transfer it to Spartan Federation

that allowed us to instabuild the CDF

So it's really a matter of integrity. Do we care? It doesn't affect the in-game reputation we have (we're "ruthless" anyway) but it'd prolly mean that we wouldn't see another Angels trade.

	11-05-2005 22:56									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie So it's really a matter of integrity. Do we care? It doesn't affect the in-game reputation we have (we're "ruthless" anyway) but it'd prolly mean that we wouldn't see another Angels trade.

Exactly why I asked for a careful consideration.

I am leaning towards leaving the project, or buying the "rights" back if we can. We might still have one or two profitable trades with Angels, before (let us face it!) we do them in as we did with Morgan.

Their answer(s) concerning the matter might change things, though. Should they ask a ridiculous price for it (instead of — more honestly — just rejecting the proposal), we will have reason to believe no new trades are possible, ever. In that case, to hell with our reputation, get the Police boost.

I guess we will see what the Embassy brings us.

	12-05-2005 02:37									#28
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I vote for staying loyal to our aggrement since we already have 2 enemies watching out backs. Building AV would get DA to think about teaming up with everyone else and then its a 3v1. Ok maybe not that serious but they would def be ticked off and I thought the plan was for us to build up for a few turns then kill hive. Honoring our previous treaties would go a long way to solifying those turns of peace.

Anyways, AV rights can easily be bought with the right price. Hope its not too expensive though

	12-05-2005 19:19									#29
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Some more moves:

• Took the veteran's advice and changed Ironholm's production from a Wombat to a Tomcat
  
• Instabuilt an F-6 at Fort Buster (using the crawler on the forested mineral tile and moving a farm worker to it temporarily)
  
• Moved a Cratersoiuth worker from a 1/2/1 tile to the now vacated 2/2/1 tile to give 2 nuts and a little boost to its food box next turn
  
• flew the now healed B-6 from FB to MT
  
• Sortied MT's B-4 out the peninsula to check on Hive troops and to provide CAP for the returning Trannie
  
• moved a B-4 from craterwest to Vladivostok - can shuttle on to Arcadia and be useful for temporary drone control while bases are popbooming

	12-05-2005 22:23									#30
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Engineering Corps moves:

• Already mentioned - 2 Tomcats at MT commence road over the mine there
  
• Tomcat-OA1 between OA & VV moves to the Olympian Northwest mine en route to the west flanks of Sparta Command.
  
• Tomcat-VV moves a tile SW to and commences roadbuilding there.
  
• Tomcat-SC2 moves a tile south and commences roadbuilding there.
  
• Tomcat-FS moves towards 87:21 to build a connecting road there

Last edited by Googlie on 13-05-2005 at 00:15