06-05-2005 11:52									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Ya know i wonder why texas has this big celebration for cinco de mayo if we fought them for our indepence too.. mexico that is.

5 May isn't Independence day and instead commemorates the defeat of the French. In the 1860's while we were in Civil War (and thus unable to enforce the Monroe Doctrine) the French took advantage of Mexico's default on its foreign debt to invade and colonize the country. This lasted until 1865 when the US ended the civil war and the US government told the French to leave or we'd declare war. Since the US had a hardened 1 million man army and the world's only fleet of ironclade war ships the French left.

	06-05-2005 11:57									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen The true phenomenon is why it is celebrated over independence day among the Mexican-American community. I have no answer to that.

5 May has basically been turned into something like a Mexican St. Patrick's Day here in the US. It has caught on with the general population instead of just the Mexican-American community and now the bar owners and stores figured out they could make a lot of money off of it. The capitalist machine has turned it into another holiday were everyone drinks to much and has a huge party.

My personal belief is that every reason to have a huge party is a good one.

	06-05-2005 11:59									#33
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Cinco de Mayo is just an excuse for white people to get drunk

*cough* *cough* Tuberskis *cough*

	06-05-2005 12:02									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin 5 May isn't Independence day and instead commemorates the defeat of the French. In the 1860's while we were in Civil War (and thus unable to enforce the Monroe Doctrine) the French took advantage of Mexico's default on its foreign debt to invade and colonize the country. This lasted until 1865 when the US ended the civil war and the US government told the French to leave or we'd declare war. Since the US had a hardened 1 million man army and the world's only fleet of ironclade war ships the French left.

Is that what you've been taught?

The French occupation lasted until 1867, not 1865 like you say. It ended not solely because of US diplomatic pressure but because the French never managed to subjugate the north of the country which was still under Juarez' forces and which eventually went back on the offensive thanks to Napoleon III's betrayal of Emperor Maximilan due, no doubt, to three main factors: Juarez' resistance, US diplomatic pressure, the looming Prussian threat in Europe. By 1867 the country was re-occupied by Juarez and Maximilan made a last stand in the center of the country where he was captured and exectued.

As for "the only fleet of ironclade warships" gimme a break, the French Navy was far more powerful than the US Navy then and had ironclad warships since the Crimean War, ever hear of the Gloire and the Couronne? Ever hear of HMS Warrior?? All built before the US Civil War.

	06-05-2005 12:06									#35
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OK, I got the year wrong.

Yes, I know the US was just an outside player but the US threat to declare war was the final straw for the French who were fairing poorly against the Mexican rebels.

I was also wrong about Itanclades. The US Navy was the ones with the all steel ships. Most of the rest of the fleet was still sail or wooden steam clippers but the US navy grew exponentially in the Civil War and was very large and very modern.

	06-05-2005 12:17									#36
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And for the record...

I think Emperor Maximilian was a great man. Despite only having lived in Mexico for a couple of years, he ended up loving the country and did quite a lot at least for Mexico City during his time. Sadly, his support group: the conservatives and the church, were pretty much the most despicable treacherous un-patriotic bastards who would sell the country out for a gold nugget.

His last words were:

"I forgive everyone, and I ask everyone to forgive me. May my blood which is about to be shed, be for the good of the country. Viva Mexico, viva the independence!"

	06-05-2005 12:21									#37
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The U.S. did send supplies and ammunitions to the mexicans- though after the civil war ended.

	06-05-2005 20:53									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident The Iron Maiden song: The number of the beast, just wouldn't sound right without the 666 part in it.

Also, Genesis' song "Suppers Ready" would not sound right without '666' being yelled...

	06-05-2005 22:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Ya know i wonder why texas has this big celebration for cinco de mayo if we fought them for our indepence too.. mexico that is.

Cuz if Mexico didn't win it's independence, you'd still be part of the Spanish Empire.

	06-05-2005 22:40									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Is that what you've been taught? The French occupation lasted until 1867, not 1865 like you say. It ended not solely because of US diplomatic pressure but because the French never managed to subjugate the north of the country which was still under Juarez' forces and which eventually went back on the offensive thanks to Napoleon III's betrayal of Emperor Maximilan due, no doubt, to three main factors: Juarez' resistance, US diplomatic pressure, the looming Prussian threat in Europe. By 1867 the country was re-occupied by Juarez and Maximilan made a last stand in the center of the country where he was captured and exectued. As for "the only fleet of ironclade warships" gimme a break, the French Navy was far more powerful than the US Navy then and had ironclad warships since the Crimean War, ever hear of the Gloire and the Couronne? Ever hear of HMS Warrior?? All built before the US Civil War.

HMS Warrior was launched in 1860, just before the ACW.
La Gloire was apparently also launched in 1860.

	06-05-2005 22:42									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Cuz if Mexico didn't win it's independence, you'd still be part of the Spanish Empire.

Except Texas won their independence from Mexico 26 years before Mexico won their independence.

ACK!

	06-05-2005 22:47									#42
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From France, not Spain.

	06-05-2005 22:49									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Cinco de Mayo is just an excuse for white people to get drunk *cough* *cough* Tuberskis *cough*

Cute Ted only im the only tuberski that drinks. The other is allergic to aolchol, therfore not a drinker. Oh and im not white I happen to be american indian hispainc and a little bit irish. mostly indian and hispanic

	06-05-2005 22:51									#44
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara From France, not Spain.

No ****, so why should Texas celebrate it?

ACK!

	06-05-2005 22:53									#45
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when texas won their independence it was from mexico that was under the control of spain. I dont have a clue when france got involved.

	06-05-2005 22:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski No ****, so why should Texas celebrate it? ACK!

Cuz it's full of Mexicans?

	06-05-2005 23:07									#47
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Cuz it's full of Mexicans?

Are you purposely being an idiot?

Texas won independence before Mexico, so your statement was idiotic.

ACK!

	06-05-2005 23:10									#48
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IIUC Mexico won independence from Spain while Texas was a part of Mexico. Mexico than had a civil war of centralizers vs decentralizers, and Texas went with the decentralizers, and then for independence (folks who want to put down Texas say they rebelled over the abolition of slavery)

	06-05-2005 23:49									#49
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My original question was just a bit of sarasm. Texas helps celebrate a mexican holiday for freedom when the texas nation fought the same country for independance I just felt it was a bit oxymoronic

	07-05-2005 00:26									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Are you purposely being an idiot? Texas won independence before Mexico, so your statement was idiotic. ACK!

Mexico did never get its "independence" from France since a good chunk of the country was never subjugated by the French and a legitimately recognized government under Juarez existed. Hence Texas did not win independence before Mexico.

You ever hear of Ciudad Juarez? Guess why it's called that way.

	07-05-2005 00:57									#51
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Teaxs failed to be under mexicos rule before the french left i assume is how he figures it.. we ruled urselves for abit before we became a state just like cali with out rules of mexico