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Asher is offline Asher
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 07:40 Visit Asher's homepage!
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IBM complies to the max: 80GB of source, a server, snide instructions given to SCO Suffering from ads?



http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?...050505145639180

quote:
Here's the Todd Shaughnessy affidavit [PDF] from IBM that Magistrate Judge Brooke Wells requested they file when they turned over all the code and paperwork to SCO, which we now find out happened on schedule on March 18.

It's a remarkable document in many ways, and, as I'm sure you'll see for yourself, it's got the air of a company not a bit worried about turning over every last Stickie note it could find, so to speak. They even turned over a server to SCO's "outside counsel", no doubt Boies Schiller, complete with elaborate instructions, even a script to help them find whatever they wish. (I have transcribed Exhibit B, but it throws the page formatting off, and you end up having to scroll, so I'll work on figuring that out, while you read this part. UPDATE: It is now complete.) Frankly, it's hilarious. It tells them how to do everything but plug the server in to the electric outlet. Perhaps they didn't believe Chris Sontag when he claimed to be knowledgeable about how CMVC works.

Why? Well, Judge Wells, in that January Discovery Order, suggested that IBM be thorough so as to block SCO from complaining about not getting everything, and for sure they now have everything IBM says they could find:

IBM is also hereby further ORDERED to file an affidavit specifying the efforts it took to deliver the code from the CMVC and RCS systems. Included in this affidavit should be an attestation to the percentage of AIX and Dynix information found and provided from the CMVC and RCS systems. By requiring this, the court seeks to circumvent future complaints by SCO alleging that IBM failed to provide all CMVC and RCS information.

Knowing SCO, they'll complain that IBM must have more hidden in a mattress somewhere, but it's a tired argument now, with this massive dump of code and white papers.

If SCO complains about wanting more, IBM is now positioned to argue that SCO is being unreasonable, and so is the court, if it goes along with SCO's outre demands. It tells the court just how much this has cost them in man hours and effort, by employees and the legal team. It comes to a pretty penny:

5. Complying with the Court's Order involved more than 4,700 hours of work from more than 400 IBM employees. This does not include the time spent by IBM's counsel and consultants on this project, which was likewise considerable. IBM produced a total of more than 80 GB of source code and other electronic data to SCO, and more than 900,000 pages of paper (which were scanned and produced in electronic form on CDs).

That is a lot of white papers and design documents, and it's a significant amount of money spent, and discovery is not supposed to punish the defendant, so that they end up losing even when they eventually win. I think they've made that point very clear to Judge Wells.

Another interesting point is that it turns out that there aren't even 3,000 contributors to AIX and Dynix code, another indication that the original Wells order was out of line. There were 7,200 people with access to the code, but not all were contributing code, so should SCO come back with more demands -- do you doubt it? -- the outside limit is now considerably less than it seemed to be before. IBM will produce, by July 19, 2005, documents from the files of the 100 individuals who made the most contributions and changes to AIX and Dynix source code, as ordered by Judge Wells when she cut back the requirement to turn over such documents from the 3,000 she thought existed.

So IBM is obeying the order to the max, but it is also letting both the court and SCO know that they feel it was a ridiculous, albeit expensive, fishing expedition. And judging from the tone of this affidavit, and the way IBM turned over every last crumb it could dig up, I gather they don't think SCO will find any fish, either, though they no doubt wish them an elaborate and expensive fishing trip.


Had I only been around earlier, and I would've been one of those individuals with access to the AIX family on CMVC.

This whole SCO vs IBM thing is ridiculous to start with, and I'm very glad that they're leaving no room for error in getting this case dismissed.

Asher is offline Asher
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It took 4,700 hours of work from 400 IBM employees, and 900,000 pages of paper to sift through to do this.

Asher is offline Asher
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 08:11 Visit Asher's homepage!
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An honest-to-God quote from their submission:
quote:
EXHIBIT A

System operation (Please read the AIX 5.2 documentation before attempting to use this system)

To power up the system, press the power button on the front panel.
To reboot the system, run the 'reboot' command as root.
To shutdown the system run the 'shutdown -F' command as root.
To power up after shutdown, press the power button on the front panel.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 08:30
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In other news IBM announces layoffs to the tune of 10,000 - 14,000 jobs. Needed productivity gains said to be the rationale.

Asher is offline Asher
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European service and management jobs mostly.

EMEA is a terrible region for IBM. It harkens back to when Thomas Watson gave control of IBM to his two sons, Tom and Dick, one EMEA and one North America.

When Gerstner took over, he eliminated much of the barriers between the two of them, but not all of it. There are basically two levels of IBM management: EMEA and otherwise. And they compete and disobey eachother frequently. It's been documented on several occasions that directives from the top of IBM were ignored, and coverups even orchestrated by European employees to pretend to be complying,when they weren't.

Long story short, enough is enough. That top layer of IBM EMEA is being eliminated, and will report directly to the IBM execs like everyone else. Some management will be redistributed, others asked to leave, others will be laid off.

Also, a bunch of "Global Services" employees in Europe are getting the axe. They aren't nearly as productive per person as they are in North America, for whatever reason.

DanS is offline DanS
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I know this must sound incredible to you, but lawyers discovering ~ 360 feet of documents is not an amazing amount.

Asher is offline Asher
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Got spare money?

The amazing part is how condescendingly thorough the documentation is. They even wrote a script for them.

They're assuming SCO has never used a computer before.

DanS is offline DanS
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They are required to act as such. The condescension is totally lost on SCO.

Hate to be a killjoy.

Asher is offline Asher
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Got spare money?

They're required to describe how to turn on the computer?

From the request that they quoted, I saw no such requirement.

DanS is offline DanS
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It is implied. IBM is required to make their discovery usable for a non-techie. That's the way this stuff works.

Asher is offline Asher
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Are these implications new?

In the 1970s in the anti-trust case against IBM, IBM was required to keep all internal correspondence for future reference. They filled up a couple large warehouses with the paper and just told the feds, "There you go..." and pointed to them...

DanS is offline DanS
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Relatively new, yes. The legal profession handles discovery a lot differently than it used to. For instance, lawyers used to be able to disorganize the discovery so as to confuse the other side. That would be sanctionable conduct now.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 06-05-2005 09:02
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The documents aren't written for the likes of SCO's techies but for their lawyers. They're the ones who like a signed affidavit that "proves" that this machine will turn on just like any other of its type.

Asher is offline Asher
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How about seeing the humour in IBM supplying SCO an AIX server? Not too long ago, SCO "revoked" IBM's license to use and sell AIX (which they ignored, of course), and here they are giving SCO an AIX server?

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
The documents aren't written for the likes of SCO's techies but for their lawyers. They're the ones who like a signed affidavit that "proves" that this machine will turn on just like any other of its type.

Er. The "document" I'm referring to are the technical instructions for using and analysing CMVC data.

I very much doubt a non-technical person would do that, seeing as they wouldn't know what the first thing to look for is.

DanS is offline DanS
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Listen, the lawyers don't care. This joke is only an inside joke for a small number of nerds like yourself.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Listen, the lawyers don't care. This joke is only an inside joke for a small number of nerds like yourself.

1) Who said the lawyers care?
2) Whose fault is it if you don't get the joke?

The instructions I've given weren't intended to be read by lawyers. They were intended to be read by the SCO discovery teams to analyse the CMVC information.

These are "computer experts" they assembled for this exact purpose.

Implied or not, the instructions provided are borderline insulting. I don't buy your excuse that it was required, and your further excuse that it's an implied requirement -- because the intended audience is clear, and this is akin to defining the English grammar to a lawyer or explaining laws to them in a submission of evidence.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
I don't buy your excuse


Have you ever participated in discovery?

Asher is offline Asher
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 09:14 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Have you ever participated in discovery?

The document was in a readme on the source. It was not in the legal documents accompanying the submission.

This level of snide detail was also not even close to being present in previous admissions during the discovery process in this case.

I call BS on you for all of the above reasons.

DanS is offline DanS
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Get a bigger avatar today!

Hey, whatever gets your rocks off.

Asher is offline Asher
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I hate to be Captain Obvious here but no one else has chimed in and it's time to go to bed:

The reason the documents were so incredibly thorough was because SCO has to hire outside experts to analyze the information in a timely matter. Do you have any idea how much this will cost them?

Do you have any idea how little money SCO has?

IBM was verbose as possible to inflate the data that needed to be sifted through. It wasn't due to the "implied requirements" to assume the reader has an IQ of 5 and is unaware how to turn on the server...

Sorry Danny.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 09:24 Visit DanS's homepage!
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It's amazing the amount of stuff that you know that just isn't so. They will be able to organize the discovery and plow through the highlights just fine. They do this all the time. They're pros at it.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
It's amazing the amount of stuff that you know that just isn't so. They will be able to organize the discovery and plow through the highlights just fine. They do this all the time. They're pros at it.

You've obviously never used CMVC.

It's possibly the worst version management system to ever exist. It's painful to use and takes forever to do simple tasks.

The discovery is NOT a simple task. I don't understand how you can possibly think they'll "plow through it".

What "highlights" are you talking about?

Do you have any idea what this is about? Because it sounds like you're on another planet.

This isn't a case where you can get some "pros" to summarize 80GB of data and then have the legal team "plow" through the summary...

You're dealing with a massive array of documents and 15 years of changes to an incredibly complex piece of software. This is anything but something you can "plow" through.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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quote:
European service and management jobs mostly.

You think 10,000 jobs aren't important?

But in the EU, doesn't a company have to pay 2/3 salary for life until a new job or retirement to every employee it lays off? That's what I heard. We need something like that here in the States, to prevent unscrupulous bigheads halfway across the country from closing productive, profitable plants.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell
You think 10,000 jobs aren't important?

3% of the workforce isn't something that concerns me much, especially considering it's in a different group of IBM with a completely different management chain and direction on another planet.

For what it's worth, the service reps I've dealt with from Europe I felt were grossly underqualified. Maybe that has something to do with it, and their underperformance compared to the North American counterparts.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
You're dealing with a massive array of documents and 15 years of changes to an incredibly complex piece of software. This is anything but something you can "plow" through.


They printed out the contents on 900,000 pages, right? Once it's on paper, they'll organize it in broad categories and plow through it.

This isn't tough to imagine.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
They printed out the contents on 900,000 pages, right? Once it's on paper, they'll organize it in broad categories and plow through it.

This isn't tough to imagine.

This isn't an essay, DanS.

Pagecount doesn't matter.

AIX is mishmash of a large amount of programming languages -- including ones that not many people know, like PLX and RPG, also.

It boggles my mind how you think that they'd "organize it into broad categories" and "plow through it". You have so obviously never worked on any software enginering projects.

You are so far out to left field now that it's ceased being funny.

DanS is offline DanS
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This isn't even funny in the first place, you dweeb. I posted only so that you would realize that.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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quote:
3% of the workforce isn't something that concerns me much, especially considering it's in a different group of IBM with a completely different management chain and direction on another planet.

For what it's worth, the service reps I've dealt with from Europe I felt were grossly underqualified. Maybe that has something to do with it, and their underperformance compared to the North American counterparts.

Whoah, whoah, whoah. It doesn't have anything to do with IBM. Employment is a two-pronged deal: the employees produce for the employers, but the employers care for the employees in return. What matters is 10,000 people with families who have depended upon IBM for a source of work will be out of it soon.

I'm not one to support deadbeat workers, but if a big executive or a single group isn't acting within the proper standards for IBM, do it on a case-by-case basis. There's no need to suddenly toss out thousands of qualified, intelligent, good workers.

quote:
They printed out the contents on 900,000 pages, right?

Well that makes it easy. Just hire 1,000 lawyers and each of them only has to sort through 900 pages.

Asher is offline Asher
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  Old Post 06-05-2005 09:48 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
This isn't even funny in the first place, you dweeb. I posted only so that you would realize that.

It'd not funny to you, because you would appreciate the instructions on how to power on a server.

It's funny to the rest of us geeks who are a bit more in-tune with the mindset of the people who are going to have to do this discovery process.

 
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