07-05-2005 02:42									#1
	Some Emp Level Games Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've decided that Emp is where things begin to get interesting. You can get away with flaws on Mon but only with difficulty on Emp. DG has been too much for me so far, but I'll keep trying.

Anyway. Americans, start in the North of lg double continent game, SP. 2nd city is on a nice settler pump. I expand - only to discover that I only have a single luxury. With some struggle I get horses and iron but keep having difficulties because so much of my resources are tied up in keeping pp happy. Contrary to usual, I only get 1 or 2 techs from exploring and thus am in a huge tech hole for much of the game. I catch up by going Math when AIs are doing horseback or something. But I need to swap top level techs over and over just to hang.

Of course the AI knows that I am a pumpkin and ripe for the picking and attacks - fortunately for me, my neighbors turn out to either lack horses, saltpeter and eventually oil. Turns out I have all the oil in the world except for a single well on the other continent.

I stave off attack after massed Rifle then Inf attacks with piles of artillery while I progress carefully up the tech tree. I get TOE, Hoovers. Eventually I can attack with tanks and arty and win my continent. Meantime the Aztecs are huge and have a big lead. They start SS before me, but I cleverly use prebuilds to get ahead. On the last tech advance I get a SGL. Thanks for nothing! Win with a SS launch in about 1902. It was a good game and took perserverence.

Never go anywhere without your artillery.

---

I have not posted in a long time so I will permit myself to be rude and ramble on. Apologies if necessary!

Next game, I decide to try the Ottomans for the first time. I get a reasonable start with a nearby wheat and decide to go for it. SP large continents again. Random otherwise. I develop quickly three cities with the ability to alternate settlers and units and thus expand well. I do OK with tech trading and development (libraries are cheap!). A couple natty little wars break out but nothing much happens - until I beeline to MilTrad for my UU. An 8 attack cavalry!! The Ottoman hordes take half the continent during a GA while they finish up Univerities and Cathedrals.

Subsequently I learn that Sipahis allow me to keep winning wars even against Riflemen! Also, with Arty support, against Infantry! They bridge the gap that usually exists from the onset of Riflemen until I get tanks. I clear the whole continent before 1700 and have a multiple tech lead. Do I go SS or look for a way to attack the KAI (Celts) on the next continent over.

Lesson here: Ottomans have a nice UU. On higher difficulty however I would probably die before getting the UU or GA because it is late.

Also, I think that Sipahis are one of the more appealing UUs.

Back to my cave.

Golden Bear

	07-05-2005 02:50									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sipahis' are definitely a nice uu. I especially like the dual-hand guns. The problem is that I like to trigger my GA to help me get a couple of the wonders that occur early in the medieval age.

Oh, and space race? SPACE RACE? Heck no, take that other continent.

	07-05-2005 09:04									#3
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Nice OP. I need to learn such perseverance...I'm getting better, but I still will dump out of game and restart. I know that takes away a bit of the fun -- you have to strive and risk for it to be fun. I think your post is a great example of that -- you obviously had a rewarding game.

Thanks for taking the time to post your experience.

	07-05-2005 12:46									#4
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Way to go Bear. Sips are just fine on DG. The problem is on pangea that you may win before you get to MT.

I use horses to survive and expand a bit and then use Knights to try for the win. No further research at that point, just all war.

That is of course not always possible, so if you are the Ottos MT is vey sweat.

	09-05-2005 00:16									#5
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Just to follow up on my Ottoman game.

Of course I was just joshing about Space Race win!

With luxuries split pretty evenly, I need to make bad bargains. Eventually they get just too expensive and I need to play the luxury bar. This works out OK because I'm always in pretty good research shape.

I jump the Greeks on one of those depressing medium size continents that are just big enough to allow you to survive until somebody finds time to visit you. I scarf up one more luxury in this manner and am at 4. Good enough.

In the meantime, I build tanks like crazy and infantry and soon bombers and mobile sam. The Celts, Hittites and Sumarians survive and have filled all corners of the second continent. I figure that I don't need to force a landing because eventually they will attack each other. I built a few settlers, load them on barges with boxes of pancake mix to keep them going and send them towards likely points of friction.

Sure enough, war breaks out with the Celts (no.1) attacking the Sumarians and the Hittites playing pile on. I hate AI piling on when it happens to me.

Out step my settlers into the interstices of combat. One in the south (only 3 squares available) and three up north. THe real action will be in the south where I am between the Celts and the Hittites.

My landing forces for something like this are: settler, captured worker, army, piles of infantry (mech I, not around yet) and 3-6 mobile SAM if I have them. The worker makes an airfield and I am immediately secure. The settler, err, settles and three SAM plop on the city and three on the airfield. I don't know if I know the ins and outs of SAMs but I have read that anything over 3 is pointless. I hope that they can cover adjacent squares and thus put multiple clusters of 3s - comments?

Anyway, after this it was just plug and chug. I stockpiled unused armies and tanks while I sped to syn fibers. THen go to full cash for a few turns and convert everybody to MA. Then load the armies and start the battle with huge artillery bombardments and bomber fleets.

It's over by 1856.

I still like arty better than bombers. Working with overlapping teams of arty I can penetrate enemy territory one turn and attack the next. I was cleverer than usual this time and held back a reserve of about 20 modern armor. I didn't really need to play turtle upthis time because I timed it for about turn 5 of a Celt-Hittite war.

Good fun! Thanks for bearing with me.

Golden Bear

	09-05-2005 02:26									#6
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According to Alexman it up to 4 flak/sams and I believe he knows what he is talking about, until someone proves otherwise.

Now I am not sure about this part, but I think no adjacent cover from anything except fighters.

I would not hesitate to fill armies with tanks and not wait for MA's, unless they were just around the corner. 4xtank will be fine for most cases, since MI's have not made an appearence.

	09-05-2005 23:47									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Now I am not sure about this part, but I think no adjacent cover from anything except fighters.

That is right. Only Fighters can cover adjacent tiles.

	11-05-2005 00:14									#8
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Goody! 4 SAMs will work. Pity that they have no adjacency.

I could use some Emperor+ coaching. I win on Emp but seem to need some kind of pop help (cows, wheat) with first or second city. My goal is to have reasonable chances to win with random start situations. Is there some advice (a thread?) that deals with ballooning your civ in the absence of 4/5 turn settler pumps?

BTW, is there a feature in the game that makes starting locations more difficult at higher difficulty levels? It seems to be easier to find settler pump locations on Monarch than Emp.

Golden Bear

	11-05-2005 00:55									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

No level factor in the starts, just plain luck. There is a tool that will generate maps within the parameters you set. I have not used it, but I guess it will create any number you want and then you choose one.

I am not sure how much fun it woul dbe to look at a few scores of maps though.

We have a few threads for emperor games here, one by Mountain Sage and Ducki. Probably a few more that may be useful to you.

Another way is too look at some succession games for a given level on CFC. Find one that matches your type of map and read it. I would stay away from the variant ones, until you are solid. Games like Always War will not be anything like a normal game.

You can win without a bonus food, on most maps. If you have AG trait, it is almost like having food bonus. You can do it with a war style or a builder style. You just have to adjust to not being off to a great start and be willing to wait a bit. The worse the start, the longer the wait.

	11-05-2005 04:13									#10
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Thanks vxma. I've looked at Mountain Sage and Ducki and have learned oodles.

I guess that I just need to keep improving my style.

Patience, yes. I remember when I first tried Monarch and I could not get ahead on techs immediately. Complete freaking out! Now I am starting 4-5 techs down and planning my strategy with equanimity for reeling in the AI.

Golden Bear

	11-05-2005 16:13									#11
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Are strategic resources much scarcer in Emperor? I'm in game at the moment, early modern age, and I've only got horses and iron, the Hittites have only got horses, the Russians have coal and iron and the Dutch have nothing at all! In all my games at the lower levels I always managed to get everything. No-one has saltpeter.

Also, I had a good session last night. I'm playing as the Arabs. I didn't have much luck finding techs from goodie huts in the ancient world (although did get plenty of cities and settlers), so I was falling further behind. However, as soon as I had my first Ansar Warrior attack in the mid-middle ages I went into a golden age. All my techs could be researched in 4 turns, and I was making so much money that I could buy them outright from the other civs. Got myself right back into the game from 7-8 techs behind in 20 turns.

It looks like the rival civs won't sell you techs until you start researching them yourself. Once you've got your own savings, though, they will let you have them for gold plus World Map - you can sell the same World Map to them over and over again.

	11-05-2005 20:39									#12
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Level has no impact on resources, map size is the main determinate.

The AI will sell you techs at all times, as long as you can make it worth doing. The are reticent to trade/sell techs that have wonders, governments and units. They understandably do not want to let others get started on the wonder or face new units.

They will trade them, but it is not cheap. Once the wonder is built, they will sell. This is why you see them hold on to Monarchy after you have Republic. Why they price Nationalism so high, even when you are in the next age (Rifles).

You can peddle maps after ever change to tiles, but I view it as too tedious and an exploit. The real issue is above emperor and some times even there, you find they have no money.