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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil
No, the Canadian public is hung up on this "fear" thing. Listen to what the 'man on the street' is saying. It is all to common to hear them talking about how they "fear" Conservative policies and that they find Harper "scary". Explain it to them, not me. I have no fear of a theocracy being formed or any kind of irreversible damage being done (unlike that being caused by the Liberals - see integrity, national unity, etc).
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You're out of touch.
If someone says that they want to destroy the things that I value then it is reasonable to fear that they will get elected and to work to prevent them from getting elected.
The Conservatives want to do many things that a majority Canadians don't want done so it is natural for Canadians to oppose the Conservatives.
The fact that Conservatives don't understand this simple concept is quite puzzling.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:19
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As for social conservatism...
The policy of the CPC is to allow all MPs a free vote on social legislation. The party is officially in favour of marriage legislation that defines marriage as between one man and one woman (as is a majority of Canadians, damned extremist bunch that they are) but none of their MPs are obliged to vote that way. In fact, Conservatives have voted against the party line on this issue and felt no recriminations.
On abortion, party policy is that 'a Conservative Government will not support any legislation to regulate abortion.' I admit it. I peeked. I informed myself as to what their actual policy was before I shot my mouth off about it. My bad.
Still, it's strange that the only people in recent memory who have brought abortion to Parliament have been Liberal back benchers.
But of course the proponents of fear are correct. Canada has everything to fear from Conservatives who will be unable to enforce party discipline on MPs to enact social legislation, and has nothing to fear from a Liberal party that currently possesses millions of tax payers dollars, kicked back into their treasury, and who embarass us before the world by declaring that 'we' will be the example that will lead all to the promised land of how a country should really be run.
Perhaps the good people of Ontario wish to borrow a page from Nero. They can fiddle while Canada burns.
Last edited by notyoueither on 28-05-2005 at 09:47
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
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Latest update:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...Story/National/
quote:
O'Brien leaves Liberals over same-sex bill
By SCOTT DEVEAU
Monday, June 6, 2005 Updated at 12:32 PM EDT
Globe and Mail Update
Liberal MP Pat O'Brien announced Monday he would be leaving the Liberal caucus to sit as an independent, saying Prime Minister Paul Martin had gone back on his promise to give adequate public consultation on same-sex marriage legislation.
“They're determined to move forward on this issue, and you can see how and what a rush they are [in] to do that,” Mr. O'Brien said at a morning press conference on Monday.
“I can't accept that in good conscience, so I leave the party with some regret, but my objective remains (to) defeat Bill C-38. Hopefully I can be more successful as an independent than I was as a Liberal.”
Mr. O'Brien, who represents the Ontario riding of London–Fanshawe, had threatened to jump ship in April if public consultation were not sought by the legislative committee studying the same-sex marriage bill.
Prime Minister Paul Martin, who was facing an impending confidence motion at the time, was quick to agree to Mr. O'Brien's demands and encouraged the committee to consider holding more public hearings.
Mr. O'Brien said Monday that he feels that the Prime Minister went back on his word and that the process to legislate same-sex marriage was “unfolding to be a farce.”
Witnesses are given too short a notice to testify, he said, and then, when they appear, they are berated and lectured by MPs on both sides of the table. He called the committee's June 16 deadline to report back an artificial timeline and said there is not need to rush.
Liberal House Leader Tony Valeri said he does not agree with Mr. O'Brien's assessment and noted that the committee had heard from more than 600 witnesses.
Mr. Valeri said it was his understanding that Mr. O'Brien was not interested in toppling the government, and could not see what he had to gain from the move.
“(Mr. O'Brien's) certainly been very vocal on this issue, and so I don't see any difference in what he will be able to do as an independent on C-38, as what he had been able to as a member of caucus,” Mr. Valeri said Monday.
Even with the defection, Mr. Valeri said, the government plans to push ahead with both budget bills, the same-sex legislation and two other pieces of legislation – the do-not-call legislation and amendments to the child protection act – before the House dissolves for summer.
“My focus, and my intention and hope," he said, "is to pass those budget bills and to get as much legislation through by the 23rd, but if we don't, we will be prepared to sit through the summer.”
The controversy around the same-sex legislation last flared up at the end of May, when the Liberals were forced to back off a move to end debate on the same-sex marriage bill early, when they were faced with a possible Conservative filibuster.
Mr. O'Brien stopped short of saying he would vote against the government in a confidence motion. He said he and the other 34 Liberal MPs who voted against the legislation are in discussions about how they could stop the bill without toppling the government. But O'Brien said he would use any democratic means possible to stop the same-sex legislation from passing.
“This is about defeating Bill C-38. I tried my best to, as part of the Liberal caucus, achieve my objectives. I now find that I can't do that any more,” Mr. O'Brien said. “I just find I'm not being listened to in the Liberal caucus to the degree I want to be on this issue.”
Although Mr. O'Brien admitted to having talked with senior officials from the Conservative Party, he said does not plan to join the party at this time.
He said he had entertained those discussions only because the Conservative position is much closer to his own than the Liberals' is.
“In the end, I felt that that was not enough for me to move to the Conservative Party,” Mr. O'Brien said, adding he had no immediate plans to meet with the Conservatives in the coming weeks.
As it stands, there are 132 liberals, 98 Conservatives, 54 Bloc, 19 NDP, and four independents in the House. The second reading of the bill passed 164-137. At the time, only 35 Liberal members voted against the bill, which was supported by both the Bloc and the NDP.
If Mr. O'Brien wanted to defeat the bill in the House, he would have to muster nearly 30 more MPs to win. Failing that, Mr. O'Brien could only hope to force a confidence motion or hope that Mr. Martin retracted the bill.
Mr. O'Brien said he favours the latter.
“You know what I hope happens, quite frankly, and I've said this directly to the Prime Minister – I don't feel he has any mandate. Where is the mandate from the Canadian people to move on this legislation?”
In an interview after the press conference, he said: “Suddenly we have this legislation and it's being fast tracked. There's no mandate. I think democratic and courageous thing to do by the Prime Minister would be to withdraw this legislation and, when he goes to the polls, let the Canadian people reflect on same-sex marriage and on the various other issues of the day and then pronounce when they cast their ballot. So that's what I hope will happen.”
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27-05-2005 23:58
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