07-05-2005 18:53									#1
	nuking and ODPs Get a bigger avatar today!

The AI just nuked me . Well sort of. In my latest game I am playing, the Hive just launched 2 PBs at my central city but thankfully I have 10 ODPs up.

I first got a message that an ODP had shot down a PB and 9 ODPs remain undeployed. Then I got a message saying another had been shot down and THREE remained undeployed. So FIVE ODPs missed. But on the next turn all 10 ODPs were available once again.

Oh and how did I get nuked. Its my latest game . . . standard map size random, playing Morgan and with restrictions:

1. No crawling any energy at all (food and mins unlimited)

2. I am only allowed to EVER have bases on my original continent or a seabase touching my continent. No capturing ANY AI base that is not on my continent (even to gift it or disband it).

3. No raising land to make my "home continent" bigger
4. I may steal technology on 3 occasions only.

The idea was to prevent myself from both unlimited ICSing (you quickly run out of land) and a SSC ( no crawled energy) to slow my growth and lead. Well so far it worked. I have a large tech lead ( I have size 4 reactors to my enemies size 2) and frankly I have been slowing my tech so I can play around with the hovertanks and skybase units. I may even delay transcending a bit to fiddle some more since I have hardly ever used these units and I want to play around some more. But for a long time I was at near military parity and my conquering restrictions means there are around 20 AI bases that can reach parts of my empire with airpower.

	07-05-2005 19:23									#2
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if there are 20 (!!!) AI bases that are able to reach you in the means of air.... well... it looks like you have made some serious mistakes earlier...

	07-05-2005 21:00									#3
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If I understand his restrainments correct, it's unavoidable to get so many AI bases in air reach.

I guess that he just got lazy and careless not checking them for PB's/PB buildiing and killing them before launch .

	08-05-2005 04:43									#4
	Re: nuking and ODPs Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Flubber The AI just nuked me . Well sort of. In my latest game I am playing, the Hive just launched 2 PBs at my central city but thankfully I have 10 ODPs up.

I've been fiddling with the "SHARETECH, 1" function for AI's, giving it to several Factions at once: no more gaining tech superiority by the time of Neural Grafting then running away with the game! Oh yeah, and getting nuked: I've come to live with it that everytime I build a superscience city, its gonna get nuked (at least till I get Flechette systems up and running....). I've also given the Aliens free nerve gas, which gives them at least an even standing against the human strategy of gassing them to oblivion.....
Since you seem to be into handicapping yourself in games Flubber, why I've been thinking of a new idea for PBEM (or SP Challenge) whereby you are restricted to one city, but are permanently pacted with an AI. The idea is to guide that AI Faction to supremacy, either by gifting desirable units (Probe Cruisers, SAM Units, etc., which the AI will then build), gifting EC's, diplomacy with 3rd party AI's to enhance your Big Brother AI's global standings, etc. The format, as I said before, could be an SP Challenge, or PBEM where its an H2H or a 3 way.
Whad'ya think?


D

	08-05-2005 05:07									#5
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I have had some strange occurences with PBs...had a flechette at Data Decentral...the aliens sent a nuke, and the flechette claimed it had failed to destroy the PB, yet somehow my city was still there...terrain was lowered, all improvements (farms and such, not facilities) were gone, even my garrison units were gone...and yet, my base was still there...

I should have saved the game and archived it, but didn't think to...I have uninstalled SMAX and only reinstalled SMAC...I like the original better...while the game is a little slower, the sound quality is a lot better on the original, and the minimap is a little different...and I don't really like the new improvements anyway of SMAX, don't know why...

	09-05-2005 04:26									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Sebed if there are 20 (!!!) AI bases that are able to reach you in the means of air.... well... it looks like you have made some serious mistakes earlier...

Hard to avoid when I can't leave my continent or capture any enemy bases. I contented myself with a large group of interceptors that prevented much of the plinking of crawlers and formers.

	09-05-2005 07:19									#7
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat If I understand his restrainments correct, it's unavoidable to get so many AI bases in air reach. I guess that he just got lazy and careless not checking them for PB's/PB buildiing and killing them before launch .

Not really lazy-- I saw that the Hive was building 2 PBs but they were in bases that were out of my easy air range and I didn't frankly want to bother with trying to penetrate into the Hive interior (its actually pretty tough to invade far without capturing bases-- you quickjly outrun your air cover. I figured 10 ODPs would be enough and they were. But when I saw the Gaians and Uni building PBs as well I upped my ODPs to over 20


Added notes

-- I played the Morganites for their lower population limits and their support issues. The game would have been much easier as say the Hive as I could have produced masses of units and patrolled to prevent the establishment of many close bases.

-- Interceptors can do well but the AI used some semi intelligent tactics-- They would attempt a hit on one crawler and die to an interceptor. The same result a second or third time But then a chopper would slip in and hit the remaining unprotected crawlers. I never credited the AI enough smarts to save the chopper for last

-- Skybases are a bit of fun-- I am finishing up the game by systematically emptying enemy bases of defenders. I will allow myself to build the VoP and then the Ascent only once I have emptied every base on planet of defenders with a unit adjacent ready to capture it ( I have 100 "Deathstar" version of this unit)-- They actually get astonishingly cheap late in the game even in the best- best empath configuration.

	09-05-2005 19:17									#8
	Re: Re: nuking and ODPs Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan I've been fiddling with the "SHARETECH, 1" function for AI's, giving it to several Factions at once: no more gaining tech superiority by the time of Neural Grafting then running away with the game! Oh yeah, and getting nuked: I've come to live with it that everytime I build a superscience city, its gonna get nuked (at least till I get Flechette systems up and running....). I've also given the Aliens free nerve gas, which gives them at least an even standing against the human strategy of gassing them to oblivion..... Since you seem to be into handicapping yourself in games Flubber, why I've been thinking of a new idea for PBEM (or SP Challenge) whereby you are restricted to one city, but are permanently pacted with an AI. The idea is to guide that AI Faction to supremacy, either by gifting desirable units (Probe Cruisers, SAM Units, etc., which the AI will then build), gifting EC's, diplomacy with 3rd party AI's to enhance your Big Brother AI's global standings, etc. The format, as I said before, could be an SP Challenge, or PBEM where its an H2H or a 3 way. Whad'ya think? D

Interesting concept. I would probably be interested in the SP challenge version. I have had a bit of time to play SP with the in-laws visiting. But PBEMS are still not a possibility for me . This past week I would have been able to play but my schedule is such that I would have stretches of a week or more at a time when I wouldn't be able to play

	09-05-2005 21:14									#9
	Re: Re: Re: nuking and ODPs Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Flubber PBEMS are still not a possibility for me . This past week I would have been able to play but my schedule is such that I would have stretches of a week or more at a time when I wouldn't be able to play

Yeah, I know the feeling: this past weekend was my first time off from work in a month, and now its right back into the grind!

Anyways, as far as the SP format is concerned, why I'll probably tinker around with it when I get the chance. Once I get the hang of the concept why I'll see if your still interested, and then maybe I can out something "interesting" together to playtest.....


D

	09-05-2005 22:40									#10
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Good stuff darsnan

I actually finished my SP Morgan game in 2310. I just conquered the entire world in a single turn and went from 20 bases to over 50 IIRC. At the end I had 153 Deathstar units and close to a hundred satellite up. I think my tech was somewhere near transcendent thought 25.

I actually enjoyed tinkering with the gravships and hovertanks. Its too bad that the AI's ability to be competitive ends at the midgame

	11-05-2005 09:42									#11
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What's exactly a skybase? Sorry for going off the track here

	11-05-2005 12:34									#12
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I think he's referring to the always flying grav chassis that behaves for almost all intents and purposes the same as the locusts of Chiron. I like to use them as formers, as they can switch between land and sea with no troubles, and have a lot of movement points. Their only downside is that they don't use mag tubes. Oh, and their expensive as hell, but by then my bases are typically pulling in more than 100 mins apeice and more than 200 ecs.

	11-05-2005 17:49									#13
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Sikander I think he's referring to the always flying grav chassis that behaves for almost all intents and purposes the same as the locusts of Chiron. I like to use them as formers, as they can switch between land and sea with no troubles, and have a lot of movement points. Their only downside is that they don't use mag tubes. Oh, and their expensive as hell, but by then my bases are typically pulling in more than 100 mins apeice and more than 200 ecs.

One other disadvantage of Grav Formers is that they can't directly change a water square to land and vice versa... I think that's a bug, considering the message that one gets when you try that...

	11-05-2005 18:02									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sikander I think he's referring to the always flying grav chassis that behaves for almost all intents and purposes the same as the locusts of Chiron. I like to use them as formers, as they can switch between land and sea with no troubles, and have a lot of movement points. Their only downside is that they don't use mag tubes. Oh, and their expensive as hell, but by then my bases are typically pulling in more than 100 mins apeice and more than 200 ecs.

Yup

Also I think at the end you can get a best-best empath for something like 63 minerals ( running eudomania for sure and I don't recall if I was running planned or wealth at the time)