08-05-2005 21:57									#61
	Re: Is state gambling a tax on the poor? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Here in Oregon there is an ongoing debate on the subject. Gambling dollars from state lotterys go to all sorts of worthy sounding stuff. For instance, clean water, restoring salmon runs, kids sports, schools. The taxpayers consistantly vote down tax increases, property tax increaes are capped. Oregonians don't want more taxes. So, the state has increased its gambling revenue. Studies show that it is often the poor who turn to lotterys in the hope of finding their way out of poverty. Some addicted gamblers will burn through their paychecks and then turn to food givaways such as church charitys... Gotta go get the wife, brb. So anyway, you have the left saying it's a tax on the poor while the churchgoing right say its immoral. Strange bedfellows working towards the same ends. Lots of people think if they spend the money on gambling they'll have less $ to spend on junk cars to put on blocks in front of their trailers. Personal responsibilty in other words. Discuss.

If the poor gamble, it's their own fault.

	08-05-2005 22:57									#62
	Re: Re: Is state gambling a tax on the poor? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker If the poor gamble, it's their own fault.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.

Personally, I'm anti-gambling. Gambling takes the focus off of making money by working hard and by working smart, which is what is needed for both individuals and society to succeed. Too many people today, rather than trying to work their way out of poverty, see winning the lottery as a way out. But for the vast majority, it's just a way to squander their meager resources.

Still gamblin is legal now in California and overwhelmingly most people love it. There's no arguing with democracy and it's hard to get a genie back into the bottle -- even when it's an evil genie.

	08-05-2005 23:21									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Winston It can't be a tax on "the poor", since nobody is forcing them to use any of their money on it. In this country of 5 mio. people, the state lottery alone had a gross turnover of >$1.5 billion last year. I say it's mostly a voluntary contribution from the not-so-bright people.

Yeah, sure, it's not a tax, because no one is forcing them.

	08-05-2005 23:22									#64
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BTW, if we can ban drugs on the basis that it's detrimental, why can't the same be done with gambling (open question)?

	08-05-2005 23:23									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris BTW, if we can ban drugs on the basis that it's detrimental, why can't the same be done with gambling (open question)?

I thought you didn't accept the first part of that statement. And many of those who want to ban drugs also want to ban the lotto.

	08-05-2005 23:30									#66
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State gambling is a tax on the innumerate. However, there is a high correlation between innumeracy and poverty.

	08-05-2005 23:30									#67
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Of course I don't accept the first (and neither the second).

I suspect though that Winston would say that gambling is your fault, whereas drugs should be banned. I may be wrong, just asking.

	09-05-2005 00:24									#68
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It's not a tax on the poor; it is a tax on the stupd/bad at math. That's often the same thing though.

	09-05-2005 00:31									#69
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Oerdin is under my mind control

	09-05-2005 00:37									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris BTW, if we can ban drugs on the basis that it's detrimental, why can't the same be done with gambling (open question)?

because the states make a lot of money on gambling.

True, they could make money if they legalized and taxed drugs. But the prime difference is drugs will kill you, gambling will not (unless you committ suicide after losing all your money)

	09-05-2005 00:38									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It's not a tax on the poor; it is a tax on the stupd/bad at math. That's often the same thing though.

not all poor are not bad a math

	09-05-2005 00:53									#72
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"not all poor are not bad a math"



Let the man who has never bought a lottery ticket or pulled the arm on a one armed bandit, bellied up to a card table or put his $ on the spin of a wheel cast the first stone.

	09-05-2005 01:00									#73
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OK.

	09-05-2005 01:10									#74
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OK.

Kuci, most of us are who we are by an accident of birth. Good or bad, rich or poor that's a fact and I include myself in that number. We have sooo much just because of where we popped out and who our parents were. Go to a third world country and meet the wonderful, friendly people who will never even have a >chance< at what we have. Who work all day for a dollar to buy some rice...

Change lives Kuci, and do it out of humble gratitude with an understanding of who you are. Because we are lucky in the lottery of birth.

Others will never have the chance we have already fulfilled when the doc slaps our butts.

	09-05-2005 01:17									#75
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I think you didn't understand my post. I AM throwing the stone...

What's the point of saying "he who has not sinned, throw the first stone" and then when he does, lecture him on how he could have been born a sinner?

	09-05-2005 01:22									#76
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Sorry, I thought you meant something else by "ok". Scuse for giving too much credit.

	09-05-2005 01:24									#77
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quote: I suspect though that Winston would say that gambling is your fault, whereas drugs should be banned.

Gambling is your fault, whereas drugs should be banned.

* Winston takes modest bow and exits stage to the right

	09-05-2005 01:27									#78
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quote: Let the man who has never bought a lottery ticket or pulled the arm on a one armed bandit, bellied up to a card table or put his $ on the spin of a wheel cast the first stone.

Ok. Can I join Kuci?

It's more money I can put towards other things, like taking a pretty girl to dinner.

I guess you could call that my lottery.

	09-05-2005 01:30									#79
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"Ok. Can I join Kuci?"

No you may not.

	09-05-2005 01:31									#80
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There should be programs available and affordable though for those who are seriously addicted to "gambling", to the extent where it interferes with their ability to lead a somewhat healthy life, however that is defined. We have them here, they're actually funded by the state lottery and privately run casinos etc.

	09-05-2005 01:33									#81
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Winston

	09-05-2005 01:59									#82
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I have never gambled either.
Not that I have moral objections, I just really don't see the point.
First even if I win, I feel I dont deserve the money.
And chances are Im losing.
so whats the point?
Its more fun to find a fun job, and party.
Thats how I see it

	09-05-2005 02:08									#83
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Personally, I think that private casinos are a great sign that something's wrong in our society - why the hell should some one profit from gambling - and it's the gambling which brings in the big bucks, not the services. Profit is a way we reward people who bring a service to people who need it. People don't need gambling ( even though they might want it. ). If people go gambling, to satisfy an urge that we can't stop, at least let them lose the money to the benefit of all.

	09-05-2005 02:21									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Gambling is your fault, whereas drugs should be banned. * Winston takes modest bow and exits stage to the right

Because if you decide to buy drugs, it's someone else's fault. Thanks.

	09-05-2005 02:29									#85
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Az,

The same argument could be used about groceries, and we all know what kind of endless queueing and malnutrition that usually leads to.

Free enterprise works the best for the rest of legal retail activities in society, why shouldn't it be the case for casinos also?

And a good deal of people would disagree with your premise of the government always being the best at spending money for the common good. In any case, it depends on the political layout of the government, and also the assumption that decisions are made and carried out in an effective manner, which they're not.

And finally, the privately owned casinos' profits don't just vanish into thin air. They're taxed like everything else, and what's left of it will be spent on buying nice/stupid/ridiculous things, like every other income... for the common good.

	09-05-2005 02:35									#86
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quote: nd a good deal of people would disagree with your premise of the government always being the best at spending money for the common good

I trust the government more than a gambling tycoon - i.e. a guy who makes his fortune from a fail-safe bussiness.


WRT groceries, I've long claimed that a small tax should be imposed on candy, and unhealthy eats. we do it with cigs, and booze, don't we? An even higher tax should be imposed on drugs, to kill off the illegal drug trade, and bring revenue to treated the afflicted.

	09-05-2005 02:48									#87
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Tobacco, alcohol and the like were taxed (excised) from the start not because they were regarded as unhealthy, but rather because they were seen as luxuries which lawmakers found it more convenient to target for increasing the government's revenue. I'll agree it has probably changed somewhat over the years, but I think most excises are still in place mainly for fiscal purposes.

You could put a tax on candy, and fat, and matches, roller skates, skis, parachutes, reclining chairs... but in the end, I think most people would like it more if the government entrusted them with the main responsibility for their own behaviour.

	09-05-2005 02:49									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Winston There should be programs available and affordable though for those who are seriously addicted to "gambling", to the extent where it interferes with their ability to lead a somewhat healthy life, however that is defined. We have them here, they're actually funded by the state lottery and privately run casinos etc.

Such programs come part and parcel with lottery programs here in the States.

	09-05-2005 03:02									#89
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quote: Tobacco, alcohol and the like were taxed (excised) from the start not because they were regarded as unhealthy, but rather because they were seen as luxuries which lawmakers found it more convenient to target for increasing the government's revenue. I'll agree it has probably changed somewhat over the years, but I think most excises are still in place mainly for fiscal purposes.

Of course, for fiscal purposes - Treating that cancer costs money. That's why Tobacco and alcohol taxes have stayed, while other luxury taxes gradually fade away. Besides, why do government have anti-smoking and anti-alcohol campaigns - to lower tax revenue?

quote: You could put a tax on candy, and fat, and matches, roller skates, skis, parachutes, reclining chairs... but in the end, I think most people would like it more if the government entrusted them with the main responsibility for their own behaviour.

How is taxing something "taking away the main responsibility for one's behaviour"? does that stop people from buying it? no, it merely makes them buy less of the stuff,at the"worst" case scenario.

	09-05-2005 03:23									#90
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quote: Of course, for fiscal purposes - Treating that cancer costs money. That's why Tobacco and alcohol taxes have stayed, while other luxury taxes gradually fade away. Besides, why do government have anti-smoking and anti-alcohol campaigns - to lower tax revenue?

To appease a strongly vocal part of the population. The government doesn't actually want alcohol and tobacco purchases to decrease...