09-05-2005 09:31									#1
	Military vests fail to stop 9mm rounds, Brig. Gen. blames media for recall Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Um, okay.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...htm?POE=NEWISVA

quote: Armor issued despite warnings By Christian Lowe, Marine Corps Times The Marine Corps issued to nearly 10,000 troops body armor that military ballistic experts had urged the Marines to reject after tests revealed life-threatening flaws in the vests, an eight-month investigation by Marine Corps Times has found. In all, the Marines bought about 19,000 Interceptor outer tactical vests from Pompano Beach, Fla.-based Point Blank Body Armor. According to a government memo, the vests failed tests because of "multiple complete penetrations" of 9mm pistol rounds and other ballistics or quality-assurance tests. After being questioned about the safety flaws for this story, the Marines ordered the recall of 5,277 Interceptor vests on Wednesday. Many of the vests were issued to Marines in Iraq. The Marines have not said what they intend to do with more than 4,000 other vests still in use or about 10,000 in storage. Government ballistics expert James MacKiewicz, in a memorandum rejecting two lots of vests on July 19, 2004, said his office "has little confidence in the performance" of the body armor. The documents were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. MacKiewicz, who works at the Army Soldier Systems Center in Natick, Mass., is responsible for verifying that the vests meets protective requirements. Instead of heeding MacKiewicz' warning, the Marine program manager for the vests, Lt. Col. Gabriel Patricio, and Point Blank's chief operating officer, Sandra Hatfield, signed waivers that allowed the Marines to buy and distribute the vests. The Marine Corps questioned the accuracy of the initial tests. It pulled samples from some of the challenged lots and had them tested at a private lab. Patricio said the second tests showed that the vests meet safety standards and do not put Marines at increased risk of injury. "We see no reason to be concerned that the quality has deteriorated or that the performance has deteriorated in any fashion," Hatfield said last month. Brig. Gen. William Catto, head of Marine Corps Systems Command, told USA TODAY on Sunday that there is no evidence to indicate problems with the vests in use. But Catto said the Marines have no choice but to recall them because the questions prompted by media coverage will "cause doubts in the minds of our guys" using the vests. Contributing: Matthew Cox and Dave Moniz. Marine Corps Times is an independent newspaper owned by Gannett.

Pay no attention to that stinging pain in your chest and the pool of blood you're standing in...

	09-05-2005 09:37									#3
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And before someone tries defending this, yes I read the article and the part about the second set of tests performed...

...at an unspecified "private" lab.

Given this second set of tests was performed only after concerns were aired about the safety of these vests, I find this attempt to clear them dubious at best.

	09-05-2005 09:40									#4
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Another outrage!

	09-05-2005 09:43									#5
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What is most rediculous to me is the notion that these vests are ok despite not being able to stop 9mm bullets. Sure, Iraqi insurgents probably aren't packing 9mms... they're packing AK47s and whatnot. If these vests can't stop 9mm bullets consistently (which the Iraqis pretty much aren't shooting anyway), why the bloody Hell should I be confident in their ability to protect our troops from the weapons the insurgents do use on a daily basis?

Dollars to doughnuts this is a case of lowest bidder winning the contract on our armed forces' lives.

	09-05-2005 18:53									#6
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quote: If these vests can't stop 9mm bullets consistently (which the Iraqis pretty much aren't shooting anyway), why the bloody Hell should I be confident in their ability to protect our troops from the weapons the insurgents do use on a daily basis?

Why do you think the vests were designed to stop AK-47 rounds? Most basic bulletproof vests can't; that's what the vests with ceramic inserts were designed for.

	09-05-2005 18:56									#7
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Apparently they weren't designed to stop anything...

	09-05-2005 18:59									#8
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But they'll keep the troops warm

	09-05-2005 19:01									#9
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quote: Apparently they weren't designed to stop anything...

I'm guessing they were designed to stop handgun bullets like most basic bulletproof vests, which is why they were testing them with a 9mm.

edit: Yep, the vest is only designed to stop fragments and 9mm bullets...

http://www.natick.army.mil/soldier/...erceptorOTV.htm

quote: But they'll keep the troops warm

That puts us one ahead of the Germans, doesn't it?

	09-05-2005 19:04									#10
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Yeah, it's proof that people can learn from history.

	09-05-2005 19:07									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Apparently they weren't designed to stop anything... I'm guessing they were designed to stop handgun bullets like most basic bulletproof vests, which is why they were testing them with a 9mm.

I'm guessing the military had a cozy relationship with whoever 'designed' the vests and doesn't want to offend them with bad PR.

	09-05-2005 19:12									#12
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Dont go to war if you dont want trops killed. And if you do, dodge and hide instead of trying to save yourself with a bullet proof coat. Anything to try and make like if soldiers were safe...
They should start make car-proof suits, like the guy that invented that bear-proof suit.