10-05-2005 13:30									#1
	(EU2) Colonies vs. Trading Posts Full PM-box? Change here!

I own Eu2 now for some weeks, finished some games, won the most, but still don't consider me an experienced player.

One thing I'd like to know is how you prefer colonialization. Have as much colonies as possible, or do you leave some as trading posts (even when you could build colonies there). Do you bring trading posts on size6, or do you turn them into real colonies ASAP? Or does it depend on the goods available in one specific province?

Of course sometimes it is also the strategic importance that makes a province valuable, or the fact that you need a harbor in a certain region, but I ask more from the economic perspective....

	10-05-2005 15:13									#2
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It depends on the circumstances. If playing England, France or Spain I don't bother with trading posts but go straight to colonies as you should have the financial resources to develop them to the point they will start to grow. It costs more but the payback is better in the long term.

Even as Portugal with limited money I prefer colonies. The exception is for provinces in most of Africa where, unless you can colonise with the natives in place, the growth rate will be negative whatever you do so you never get much past 1000 population (unless you send a LOT of very expensive colonists you probably need somewhere else). Southern Africa is OK but with Portugal in West Africa I colonise about every third province (Louga and Luanda can be done with the natives in place) and put level 6 trading posts in between. Apart from this I never do trading posts.

If you are playing a smaller country and want to grab a province but can't afford to fully develop it then a trading post is a useful intermediate step.

	10-05-2005 15:43									#3
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I use trading posts as "place holders" to prevent other powers from taking the provence but I replace them ASAP because not only are trading posts not very productive but they can also be burned thus removing your claim.

	10-05-2005 23:35									#4
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I use TPs to claim a good area (like gold or sugar), but I can't send soldiers to keep the natives in line (I dislike killing off natives because they give your colonies a population bonus).

	11-05-2005 00:38									#5
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Some natives need a good killing though.

	11-05-2005 02:20									#6
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If you have sole access to the CoT, tps are great.

	11-05-2005 21:27									#7
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Didn't know about the pop bonus from natives. So far I always thought I'd have to kill'em all tro prevent them from destroying the colony as long as it isn't big enough. Maybe I should change my tactics in this point

	11-05-2005 21:51									#8
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The bonus pop is huge. In my game as portugal, I colonised India only so that I would have big cities as soon as the colony turned into a town. Basically, the population bonus spared me 40 colonists + lots of time for population growth.

	11-05-2005 22:08									#9
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Do those colonies have another culture then? I mean, if I colonize them "from scratch" without natives they get my ow culture.....do they still have it when using the bonus?

	11-05-2005 22:51									#10
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Do those colonies have another culture then? I mean, if I colonize them "from scratch" without natives they get my ow culture.....do they still have it when using the bonus?

yeah they do. But i find it real hard to avoid conflicts with the natives, you have to be real careful about moving military units in.

	12-05-2005 00:26									#11
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I tend to build colonies, but sometimes I build TPs to get the success change up.

	12-05-2005 03:12									#12
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I only kill the most militant natives and even those I try to sit one army on top of the colony to guaqrd it while I'm building it. It is so nice to have 20k pop right off the bat and they're all my culture and eligion.

	12-05-2005 14:20									#13
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Colonising with the natives in place can give a huge bonus. I'm currently playing a game as Portugal and made a beeline straight for India and colonised 6 provinces with the natives intact. A 6000+ population province generates a lot more income than a 1000 population one.

I find the trick is to use conquistadors. Not only are they less likely to trigger combat with the natives when moving into or through a province but they give a bonus to the colonisation % chance if they are in the province when the colonist is sent. I used several of the Portuguese conquistadors to do this over about 50 years in India but didn't have much else to do with them at the time and the payback is worthwhile. Or you can get the same effect with an explorer in port in the colony when the colonist is sent.

If the natives are more than aggression level 4 I kill them (only exception is the Bahamas where 5000 natives and an early high value province that may develop a CoT makes the extra effort and risk worthwhile). In some cases I will kill groups of up to 1500 natives with very low aggression levels simply to get a better colonisation chance and to ensure no revolts.

	12-05-2005 16:50									#14
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The Bahamas, New Orleans, and Trinidad seem to have very high chances of a CoT forming. Same with Cape Town.

	12-05-2005 20:57									#15
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Colonies for rich provinces, trading posts for poor ones.

	13-05-2005 02:31									#16
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Economically speaking, colonies make more money... but they cost about 500 each, not including any improvements. That's a lot of money, considering a manufactory will net you about 80 gold a turn, plus loads of other benefits. Colonies also raise your stability costs, and may need protection as well.

You can improve your colonising efficiency by keeping an explorer or conquistador (or both) in the province when you send the colonist - this lowers the cost and improves the chances. They don't have to stay there while the colonist is moving there, either.

I hope Paradox gives the colony system a change in EU3. Reducing the number of colonists by 90%, but increasing their population value to 1000 would cut back on micro-management,whilst also being more historical. Failures would be handled by inflicting losses on sent colonists; i.e. only 261 of your 1000 colonists managed to survive the journey. Having colonists of different culture and religion would be nice as well.

	13-05-2005 08:53									#17
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Trading Posts never revolt and if you control the COT they can be extremely profitable. In my current game most of N America is covered in my trading posts. The only colonies I have are the gold bearing provinces.

	13-05-2005 09:38									#18
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They mightn't revolt per se but they can still defect in a civil war.

What I really dislike about TP's is the fact that they're just so easy to burn down and that they take up nearly as many colonists to get them up to a reasonable level as you'd need to found a colony (Or at least they used to before the 1000 pop tweak).
They're fine if you're cash-strapped and narrow-minded but if you're a rich, innovative nation then you'd usually want to go for colonies...

	13-05-2005 14:31									#19
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You don't get any taxes or manpower from trading posts plus they are easily destroyed so it's much better to colonize in the long run.

	13-05-2005 19:00									#20
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Depending on nation and date, there's a limit to how many TPs you can place before incuring a penalty to placing more.

From traders.csv

code:

NUMBER OF TRADERS PER YEAR DATABASE;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
PERIOD ;MIN ;NAT ;ENG ;SPA ;FRA ;HAB ;HOL ;VEN ;PRU ;POR ;RUS ;TUR ;SWE ;OMA ;DAN ;USA ;END
1520   ;1   ;1   ;10  ;1   ;20  ;1   ;1   ;5   ;1   ;200 ;5   ;5   ;1   ;10  ;1   ;1;
1560   ;1   ;1   ;25  ;1   ;50  ;1   ;1   ;5   ;1   ;200 ;5   ;100 ;14  ;10  ;5   ;1;
1615   ;1   ;1   ;100 ;100 ;50  ;1   ;200 ;5   ;1   ;150 ;100 ;100 ;10  ;10  ;10  ;1;
1665   ;1   ;1   ;100 ;5   ;50  ;1   ;300 ;5   ;1   ;20  ;100 ;100 ;10  ;10  ;20  ;1;
1700   ;1   ;1   ;200 ;5   ;100 ;1   ;200 ;5   ;5   ;5   ;100 ;10  ;10  ;10  ;20  ;1;
1760   ;1   ;1   ;200 ;5   ;100 ;5   ;100 ;5   ;5   ;5   ;100 ;5   ;100 ;10  ;30  ;10;
1792   ;1   ;1   ;300 ;5   ;100 ;40  ;100 ;5   ;5   ;5   ;100 ;5   ;10  ;10  ;30  ;40;

	13-05-2005 19:48									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You don't get any taxes or manpower from trading posts plus they are easily destroyed so it's much better to colonize in the long run.

When you live on an island with a massive navy, you don't need no stinking manpower.

	13-05-2005 20:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon When you live on an island with a massive navy, you don't need no stinking manpower.

So true.

One game as England, I went on a colonization binge and by 1819, my monthly income was about 1500d per month and I had over 1000 warships.

Curiously for that game, in the last year, a newly conquered province revolted, it's name was Phuket (say phonetically).

	13-05-2005 23:59									#23
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Phuket is a nice place or was before the Sunami.

	14-05-2005 10:20									#24
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A tp can be built on the coast or next to a colony, but not simply next to another tp. The only exception to this is Russia, because of the vast Siberian corridor.

	14-05-2005 10:24									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Qilue So true. One game as England, I went on a colonization binge and by 1819, my monthly income was about 1500d per month and I had over 1000 warships.

That sounds like my Sweden game I just finished.

quote: Curiously for that game, in the last year, a newly conquered province revolted, it's name was Phuket (say phonetically).

	14-05-2005 12:21									#26
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Man... I've just moved all my games over to the new machine. I might finally get around to actually learning how to play Victoria now.

	26-07-2005 01:56									#27
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I never use trading posts. Not worth the loss of settlers.
Colonists, that is.
I love colonising.
In my game as Portugal, when I decided to stick to my 3 European provinces, my entire game was about colonisation - asn it still was fun!

	28-07-2005 05:13									#28
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TPs are worth it if a territory has a good trade good but a bad base tax value and a harsh location penalty to growth (for example, some of the ivory and slaves provinces in Africa). Otherwise, I just go with colonists.