10-05-2005 17:43									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller says dictionary.com and other places it also makes sense as a definition, and is clearly different than other definitions (at least that I know of) if you have anoher word that means what I am trying to convey, please tell me and I will expand my vocabulary (But will probably still say sucj things about Fanatics to cause discussion) JM

It really depends on the people you are describing.

You can use the word fanatic to describe someone who is
obsessed with a subject and brings it up at any opportunity.
Perhaps even violently defending his worldview...

But to call a person who loves playing a PC game, a fanatic is too extreme.

This person would be an 'enthusiast.'

	10-05-2005 17:45									#32
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but an enthusiast is missing some sense of what I am trying to convey

an enthusiast wouldn't stick to his/her view when the going was rough (doesn't have that conotation)

JM

	10-05-2005 17:46									#33
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but actually, my freind who has almost lost his girlfreind, and did lose his job, over an MMO (he wasn't too happy with his job anyway)

I might call a fanatic, not an ethusiast

but I sort of associate fanatic with ideas.. not with an activity (which is what is in the definition from dictionary.com)

JM
(so basically your suggestion is crap)

	10-05-2005 17:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller but an enthusiast is missing some sense of what I am trying to convey an enthusiast wouldn't stick to his/her view when the going was rough (doesn't have that conotation) JM

Some enthusiasts will stick with a view, even when it gets difficult, expensive or unfashionable.

That still does not make them a 'fanatic'.

.

	10-05-2005 17:53									#35
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quote: (so basically your suggestion is crap)

I expect a mature debate.

Do not get offensive please.

Lest ye incur my wrath!

	10-05-2005 17:56									#36
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1. One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit: a baseball enthusiast.
2. A zealot; a fanatic.


hmm...

so you are right, it is an alternate definition

still, the associations are not that someone will sacrifice as much for something that hey are an enthusiast for then something they are a fanatic about

and fanatic also has the clear bit of ideas or cause being part of the definition

Jon Miller
(disregard things like crap, that is just a way I have gotten use to conversing, it is not a particularly good way)

	10-05-2005 17:56									#37
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(I need to go to school soon, hopefully peopel will continue the discussion)

JM

	10-05-2005 17:59									#38
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Jon, no sweat!

Glad we can all converse and have interesting/different viewpoints!

	10-05-2005 18:35									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller (I need to go to school soon, hopefully peopel will continue the discussion) JM

Bléh, you're not fanatical enough.

	10-05-2005 18:36									#40
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and that's the fanatical truth ...

	10-05-2005 20:06									#41
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I only said I was a big fan.. I didn't say I Was fanatical

but anyway.. back to work

JM

	10-05-2005 21:07									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller and I agree with you that a fanatic won't neccesarily make the wind blow many are not made for it/ screw up but they are the only ones who can make it blow I also agree that there are different levels of conviction, but that just dictates when they join the cause someone who has strong convictions jumps on the wagon when there is a just a bit of motion, but he won't start the wagon moving Jon Miller

why not? because he lacks conviction? maybe it takes someone with strongs believes to start things moving.
maybe a fanatical will have larger chances of screwing things up and thus seldom starts anything.

whereas someone who is methodical and open minded can manipulate things much more to a certain direction, maybe

	10-05-2005 21:25									#43
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quote: everyone who is interesting is a fanatic about at least one thing fanaticism does not imply violence Gandhi was a anti violence fanatic

I'd agree with you if you said 'extremist', since this is the same point Dr. King makes in his letter in a Bimingham Jail.

	15-05-2005 20:25									#44
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if you look at the definition of fanaticism, I am using it properly

it just has a lot of, unjustified, negative conotatinos...

being a fanatic is wrong, it si waht you do with that fanaticism...

Jon miller

	15-05-2005 21:26									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you are applying your own views of fanatics to your definition, which are all negative

How is hanging on an idea dispite the fact that such an idea is wrong a positive thing?

	15-05-2005 21:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How is hanging on an idea dispite the fact that such an idea is wrong a positive thing?

The idea need not necessarily be a bad one for a fanatic to be unreasoning about following it.

	15-05-2005 21:43									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller someone who has strong convictions jumps on the wagon when there is a just a bit of motion, but he won't start the wagon moving

I am not sure about that.

Gandhi does not come across as a fanatic. Neither were the Buddha, Lao Tzu, and Confucius.

Darwin wasn't a fanatic, and neither was his "bulldog" Huxley.

	15-05-2005 21:59									#48
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Gandhi was most definitely a fanatic

I don't know about Darwin, but Boltzmann was (as was Einstein)

I don't know enough about many of the chinese you mentioned.. but I bet Buddha wa sa fanatic

Jon Miller

	15-05-2005 22:30									#49
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york 'Poly's better.