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Jon Miller
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or at least think that they are neccessary
it is fanatics that make life interesting, and are in some way (directly or indirectly) responsible for much of what is valauble that is in our history (and much which is painful I agree)
just an uninteresting example, without fanatics to opose him, Hitler would have won WW2 and the world would be a much worse place
some of my thinking is colored by the book "Soldier, Ask Not", has anyone read it?
basically, fanatics, of one form or another, are what cause conflict, which allows a competition between ideas
this I think is valuable
so what do others think?
care to join me in celibrating fanaticism?
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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everyone who is interesting is a fanatic about at least one thing
fanaticism does not imply violence
Gandhi was a anti violence fanatic
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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I'm a fanatic about some things..
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people who aren't fanatics are boring
and what is a point of life but to be interesting (I think this is the only one that all?? can agree to)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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you should check yours
te people who are you are thinking of are just fanatic about things that you find particularly distasteful and counter to your way of life
the fact that you feel strongly abnout them causes me to beleive that youa re a fanatic also
the ACLU is another example of a group of fanatics
Jon Miller
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Bereta_Eder
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fanatics dont change their views even if they're "wrong". that's why they're fanatics i think.
i.e. saying it is night when it is day?
if you take it in the context of war that's different
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Jon Miller
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a fanatic is marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill
I will tell you that a number of scientists are fanatics
and that is sometimes a good thing (Ludwig Boltzmann was a fanatic, he ended up killing himself when he thought that people would not follow his ideas about atoms)
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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basically fanatics are true beleivers
everyone else just sways in the wind, it is fanatics that make the wind blow
Jon Miller
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Bereta_Eder
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churchill always had a flair for nice quotes
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
basically fanatics are true beleivers
everyone else just sways in the wind, it is fanatics that make the wind blow
Jon Miller |
again you put in the same pot different things. war, the supernatural (true believers) etc the behaviors of people change from "normal" when they engage in these sort of things.
in "normal" terms a fanatic is (besides an obnoxious person) someone who isn't interested in knowing if what he thinks is right or wrong. or a zealot who will try to convert others etc
i.e. a man with "Strong convictions" isnt a fanatic i think.
there is an hierarchy, different levels of "absolutism" a fanatic is somehwere at the top
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Bereta_Eder
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for example one can say "i'm fanatic with human rights" meaning he is utterly devoted to do anything to protect them. let's say he works in the UN.
if what he does, despite his intentions, is actually damaging human rights issues in some country and he doesn stop to think what's he's doing then he's a fanatic and actually he does the opposite of what he is saying/believing. so a fanatic won't necessairily "make the wind blow"
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Jon Miller
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you are applying your own views of fanatics to your definition, which are all negative
the person in your example doesn't become a fanatic unless he screws up, that has nothing to do with the definition however (and makes the discussion boring)
if he is utterly devoted to protecting human rights, than he is a fanatic, no matter whether he screws up or not
Jon Miller
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Bereta_Eder
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the person has always been a fanatic.
the point about wether he screws up or not was to demonsrate that fanatics dont necessairily "make the wind blow". they can be as damaging or "not moving things" as anyone else
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Jon Miller
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and I agree with you that a fanatic won't neccesarily make the wind blow
many are not made for it/ screw up
but they are the only ones who can make it blow
I also agree that there are different levels of conviction, but that just dictates when they join the cause
someone who has strong convictions jumps on the wagon when there is a just a bit of motion, but he won't start the wagon moving
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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because it is the correct one
JM
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Jon Miller
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actually I never go there
JM
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Jon Miller
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I agree that only bad scientists can't change their minds
but some good scientists are very firm beleivers in their own ideas, they sort of need to be especially if their ideas are revolutionary (and not obvious)
basically I disagree with Mr Churchills definition and prefer the one above it
"a fanatic is marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea"
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by curtsibling
Says you, but you are only half-right.
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says dictionary.com and other places
it also makes sense as a definition, and is clearly different than other definitions (at least that I know of)
if you have anoher word that means what I am trying to convey, please tell me and I will expand my vocabulary (But will probably still say sucj things about Fanatics to cause discussion)
JM
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Jon Miller
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for example.. Einstein is another example of a good scientist who stuck to his guns ("God doesn't play dice...")
JM
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Jon Miller
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but at times thing seem to be against you
but you are right (see Boltzmann)
and so a fanatic is needed in science, even
JM
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10-05-2005 16:23
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