11-05-2005 09:43									#31
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun So then in the meantime, we're suppose to happily submit to whatever unfair, unjust legislation the tyrannical majority passes and suffer during that time?

If it's that tyrannical, it can be thrown out as Unconstitutional.

What is unfair and unjust, however, is in the eye of the beholder. Any party could find anything unjust. There are many people in this country who would consider it unfair and unjust to promote Gay Rights in anyway. We have the Constitution to protect our basic rights, and we have the fact that it takes winning both houses of Congress and the Presidency for one party to get something through, something which is rather difficult. But beyond that, it is the popularly elected representatives which decide which is the most fair and just legislation.

	11-05-2005 09:44									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Say the situations ar eme erversed, wo9uld you support JIm Crolw? The filibuster supldrsts the parliamnatary minory. ino this case it's the democrats. bnow. reason it does is tha republican styates are over-represented int the senate. that[s whjuy. so quiit y9ur4 b itichitgn. it's ****iung pathetic. in shte Sneate, the majoritgy6 someteimes intrinsically loses/ th'at's wqhy the Disstircict foi Columbia aint' reprkesented int the Senawte. So.. Quite your bitichin.. it's your fault. y9our hate civil rights. you hate civilvl libert8ies. it's your fault. **** you.

This is the best post Ramo has ever made!

	11-05-2005 09:47									#33
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quote: Something being traditional doesn't neccesarily mean it would be right. Especially when the major historical role of the tradition is support racism.

And because the tradition has been perverted on certain doesn't mean it should be junked.. or do you think the Catholic Church should be thrown on the pyre because of the scandels engulfing it?

This tradition is right.

quote: Rule of the mob!? Rule of the mob is prevented by the fact that we have representative democracy, that Senators are elected for 6 years, that any piece of legislation must be passed by two houses and approved by the president(Or approved by 2/3 of both houses). It's protected by the fact that we have a Constitution that limits what the majority can do and prevents it from opressing minorirites. But the filibuster is not part of that constitution, because allowing a minority of 41 to excercize a veto is going way way too far in allowing the representatives that the people elected from passing laws.

The filibuster has been a long standing block on democratic power in the Senate. That is why it is limited to the Senate, the less democratic body. We could go back to the way it was, in that there was NO way to end debate in the Senate. On in 1917 was there a way to end a filibuster.

quote: In this case, would you still support the filibuster, even if it's continued existence would mean the continuation of Jim Crow?

Yes.

	11-05-2005 09:54									#34
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"And because the tradition has been perverted on certain doesn't mean it should be junked.. or do you think the Catholic Church should be thrown on the pyre because of the scandels engulfing it?

This tradition is right."

Well, you can justify something based on it's present value. But if you want to justify something based on it's traditional worth you consider what the tradition has accomplished vs. problems it has caused. I don't know what great merits the filibuster has accomplished that would overcome it's use to support segregation.

"
The filibuster has been a long standing block on democratic power in the Senate. That is why it is limited to the Senate, the less democratic body. We could go back to the way it was, in that there was NO way to end debate in the Senate. On in 1917 was there a way to end a filibuster."

Well there you go. We broke with tradition before, and we can do so again.

"Yes."

Well alright then. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

	11-05-2005 10:00									#35
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quote: I don't know what great merits the filibuster has accomplished that would overcome it's use to support segregation.

The filibuster is one of the main things which makes the Senate a more collegial body, which looks at bills that reach a broader consensus rather than just barely pass. The House is the kids table where they scream and yell and barely pass stuff. The Senate is the adults table where they talk it out amicably and come to a decision that forms a greater number.

The filibuster is integral to keep that Senatorial civility and having that branch act like adults.

quote: Well there you go. We broke with tradition before, and we can do so again.

You can't see the difference between an evolution and a total reversal?

	11-05-2005 10:08									#36
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shi if you think otthe filibuster's unfair, why not give barbera boxer several tiems as many votes as craig thomas (whoever, the **** he is, i never hear do of him, but he's a free rethug wyoming senator)?

	11-05-2005 10:38									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo shi if you think otthe filibuster's unfair, why not give barbera boxer several tiems as many votes as craig thomas (whoever, the **** he is, i never hear do of him, but he's a free rethug wyoming senator)?

What I would support is you going and getting some rest before your final tommorow.

	11-05-2005 17:37									#38
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quote: "Godel's Incompleteness Theorem"

	11-05-2005 18:09									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun So then in the meantime, we're suppose to happily submit to whatever unfair, unjust legislation the tyrannical majority passes and suffer during that time?

Why are people talking about legislative filibusters as if that is what Frist has in his cross hairs? Why is Ramo so drunk during his exams? The questions just keep coming.

	11-05-2005 18:54									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why are people talking about legislative filibusters as if that is what Frist has in his cross hairs? Why is Ramo so drunk during his exams? The questions just keep coming.

Right, the filibuster only applies to appointing justices. Although I think it would be a very good thing to just scarp the filibuster altogether.

	11-05-2005 19:07									#41
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quote: For the last two weeks, students, faculty and congressmen have kept the filibuster going around the clock, reading everything from Einstein's classic papers to the "Q" section of Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. They're showing support for the practice of speaking for long periods to block pending legislation. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a 1974 Princeton graduate, has threatened to use the "nuclear option," reducing the number of votes needed to stop a filibuster if Democrats use the tactic to try to block some of President Bush's judicial nominees.

I wonder if these people at Princeton are so ignorant that they actually believe filibusters still involve "speaking for long periods to block pending legislation" or if CNN is just being sloppy...

	11-05-2005 19:15									#42
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They're probably trying to make a point, DT.

	11-05-2005 19:23									#43
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They're probably trying to make a point, DT.

Why is Ramo drunk during exams then?

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Although I think it would be a very good thing to just scarp the filibuster altogether.

That puts you in good Democratic company.

	11-05-2005 19:24									#44
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why is Ramo drunk during exams then?

That's a damn good question. Stress? Maybe he was having a stroke?

	11-05-2005 19:34									#45
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quote: They're probably trying to make a point, DT.

I know they're trying to make a point. I'm just saying that, if CNN's assessment of their motives is correct, the point they are making is stupid and decades out of date.

	11-05-2005 21:23									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why are people talking about legislative filibusters as if that is what Frist has in his cross hairs? Why is Ramo so drunk during his exams? The questions just keep coming.

Why are you so obnoxious sometimes? The questions keep coming.

	11-05-2005 21:29									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: They're probably trying to make a point, DT. I know they're trying to make a point. I'm just saying that, if CNN's assessment of their motives is correct, the point they are making is stupid and decades out of date.

If they protested by using a modern filibuster, would anyone have noticed?

	11-05-2005 22:51									#48
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You know, you don't actually have to act out the procedure you support in order to protest on its behalf. You don't see pro-choice folks out there aborting fetuses for the cameras to draw attention to their cause...

	11-05-2005 23:55									#49
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I completely agree with Shi here. Your country put these nutjobs in power. Your country must now deal with the consequences. As long as the Bushies remain within the boundaries of the constitution (especially, as long as the opposition enjoys the same level of democratic rights), the Bushies should be able to freely destroy your country.

To express disagreement in the Parliament and in the media is an excellent thing, essential to a working democracy. However, it's completely antidemocratic to try to precent the elected party from implementing its policies.

Down with filibustering

	12-05-2005 00:41									#50
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That puts you in good Democratic company.

Indeed. And without the blue slip, I wonder what's going to happen the next time a Democrat comes into power and wants to appoint a vast variety of 'liberal' judges.

	12-05-2005 00:43									#51
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Spiffor, some of us have to live here.

	12-05-2005 00:46									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Indeed. And without the blue slip, I wonder what's going to happen the next time a Democrat comes into power and wants to appoint a vast variety of 'liberal' judges.

Hopefully, the Republicans will still have a simple majority in the Senate by which they can block them. If the Democrats hold both the Presidency and the Senate, then yes they can go ahead and appoint those liberal judges.

	12-05-2005 00:48									#53
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quote: Spiffor, some of us have to live here.

Well, yeah, but when the Dems will finally regain power, they'll want to re-legalize abortion, allow people to use public libraries, lift the martial law, things like that... You can only imagine as their attempts will be filibustered to death

	12-05-2005 00:49									#54
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You say that now, as an abstraction. I'd LOVE to see your view once the pendulum swings and the Democrats are pushing in pro-choice judges by the cartful.

	12-05-2005 00:50									#55
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Again, it's not about pro- or anti-choice judges, but judges who are totally ****ing bonkers. They are the conservative equivalent of the 9th Appelet Court on steroids.

	12-05-2005 00:51									#56
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I'm more then willing to take that risk to get rid of filibustering judicial nominees.

	12-05-2005 00:52									#57
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Personally, I think judicial appointments should require a 2/3rd majority for acceptance. No more extremist judges on any side.

	12-05-2005 00:54									#58
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Again, it's not about pro- or anti-choice judges, but judges who are totally ****ing bonkers. They are the conservative equivalent of the 9th Appelet Court on steroids.

Yeah, that Owen woman in Texas... I read up on her..

Now, I'm a Republican, but Jeez Louise!

	12-05-2005 00:57									#59
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Priscilla Owen is definately the worst of the lot. Most of the rest aren't much better.

	12-05-2005 00:59									#60
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Personally, I think judicial appointments should require a 2/3rd majority for acceptance. No more extremist judges on any side.

You'd never fill a juidical vacancy again. You'd always like have 1/3 +1 of the senate on either side who would block a judicial nominee who leaned the other way, particularly once the abortion issue is considered. If you don't like who is being nominated, change the party in control of the Senate or the Presidency.