11-05-2005 06:38									#1
	Frist's alma mater stages a filibuster against him! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This is great... bipartisan as well! Btw, there is no relation between me and another person in the article, just in case it comes up.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05...ster/index.html

quote: PRINCETON, New Jersey -- Princeton University students are showing support for the filibuster by staging their own. For the last two weeks, students, faculty and congressmen have kept the filibuster going around the clock, reading everything from Einstein's classic papers to the "Q" section of Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. They're showing support for the practice of speaking for long periods to block pending legislation. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a 1974 Princeton graduate, has threatened to use the "nuclear option," reducing the number of votes needed to stop a filibuster if Democrats use the tactic to try to block some of President Bush's judicial nominees. The mock filibuster has been going on in front of the Frist Campus Center, which was built with a $25 million donation from the senator's family. Frist's son Harrison is a junior at Princeton. A showdown over the nominees could come next week, Frist told CNN. In D.C., protesters plan to filibuster all day Wednesday at the reflecting pool on the Mall and expect to be joined by senators Thursday morning before a press conference. Democrats and Republicans have used the filibuster in the Senate to slow or derail legislation. At Princeton, Republicans, Democrats, independents and libertarians have expressed support of the filibuster by taking the microphone, although a group of Republican students protested the filibuster while NBC cameras rolled last week. "It speaks to underlying democratic values," said Jason Vagliano, a senior from Brookline, Massachusetts. "The essence of it is bipartisan." The activists have made the exterior of Frist Campus Center look like camp. Filibusterers read in front of or under a large rainbow umbrella, and supporters sit under a blue tent watching and blogging. FilibusterFrist.com, the student activists' Web site, gives a national audience live footage from the filibuster site through a Webcam, and also provides a blog and tips for starting filibuster protests on other campuses. Other protests have been organized at Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, Boston College, Tufts, Yale, University of Texas-Austin, and Carleton College in the past three weeks, though none have lasted as long as the one at Princeton. At Princeton filibusterers can read, say, or do whatever they want during their allotted time slot, political or not, said organizer Karen Wolfgang, a junior from Portland Oregon. Some, like senior Sarah Barbrow, stuck political commentary into their readings. In her dramatic rendition of the Dr. Seuss story "What Was I Scared Of?" in which the main character is scared of a pair of pants, she put down the book and told the small audience, "These pants are pretty scary, guys. Just like Frist." Other students have brought original creations. Brad Friedman, a senior in the computer science department, used his study of language modeling to create a unique text merging the Gettysburg Address, the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and former President Clinton's Monica Lewinsky trial testimony. "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" and "Godel's Incompleteness Theorem" were also featured during filibusters. The protest did not begin with a centralized group of students. While a small core group started with what was to be a 12-hour protest, other students wanted to take the protest overnight, and because there was enough interest, the filibuster continued beyond that. Organizers noted that many coordinators hadn't met each other before the second week, as the movement grew so "organically." "We really thought it would not go beyond the first day, but so many people wanted to sign up," said Asheeh Siddique, a sophomore organizer from Chevy Chase, Maryland. Notable appearances have included U.S. Rep. Rush Holt, D-New Jersey, and Frank Pallone Jr., D-New Jersey, and Pennsylvania Senate candidate Chuck Pennachio. Nobel Prize-winning physicist Frank Wilczek also filibustered. "We're taking the message from Frist's alma mater to his doorstep, and we believe it's critical for American democracy that he hears it," said Ben Strauss, a graduate student organizer.

	11-05-2005 06:42									#2
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quote: Frist's son Harrison is a junior at Princeton.

Harrison?? What kind of sicko would name their son that? Holy moley, Harrison?!?

	11-05-2005 06:45									#3
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I don't think there is anything wrong with Harrison as a name. Harrison Ford, anyone?

	11-05-2005 06:48									#4
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He makes up for it by being a badass.

Han Solo Indiana Jones

	11-05-2005 07:53									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Harrison?? What kind of sicko would name their son that?

One called Harry?

	11-05-2005 07:59									#6
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Bipartisan my butt. If the Democrats were in power and they were going to kill the filibuster to get in "pro-civil rights, pro-gender equality pro-environment" judges that the GOP was blocking, you can bet there would be no such thing happening.

	11-05-2005 08:17									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Bipartisan my butt. If the Democrats were in power and they were going to kill the filibuster to get in "pro-civil rights, pro-gender equality pro-environment" judges that the GOP was blocking, you can bet there would be no such thing happening.

Are you disputing that Republicans as well as Democrats are engaging in this anti-filibuster filibuster protest at Princeton University, even though it is stated in the article itself?

	11-05-2005 08:19									#9
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You know, if the Dems would be upfront about this and say that want to keep the filibuster so they can stop pro-life justices from getting in, that would be one thing. But to act like the Filibuster is this sacred American institution which can't be done away with is pure BS. The major accomplishment of the filibuster in American history has been slowing and frustrating the civil rights movement due to filibusters from Southern Democrats. It's a completely undemocratic and extraconstitutional mechanism whereby if one party can just control 41 seats in the Senate that can block anything the majority tries to do. To my knowledge, there is nothing like that in the rest of the Democratic world. And to go on what I was saying before, say the Southerners has been sucsessful in holding up the filibuster against the Civil Rights Act. I wonder if they would still be singing the praises of the filibuster if LBJ's loyalists in the Senate had decided to have a way to get around it or remove the filibuster.

	11-05-2005 08:21									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Are you disputing that Republicans as well as Democrats are engaging in this anti-filibuster filibuster protest at Princeton University, even though it is stated in the article itself?

I wonder what kind of Republicans would be joining this. I strongly suspect that this filibuster is bipartisan the same way a piece of legislation would be bipartisan if the Republican Party and Zell Miller supported it.

	11-05-2005 08:23									#11
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Are you acting like the filibuster doesn't have a long history and tradition in the American democracy? That's quite foolish.

The Dems didn't try to get rid of it when they were in power. That says something to me, as opposed ot the Republicans who want to destroy Congressional custom because they are in power now.

	11-05-2005 08:24									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I wonder what kind of Republicans would be joining this.

You seem to forget that New Jersey Republicans are different than the leaders of the party, just like all NorthEastern Republicans.

Christine Todd Whitman represents our conservatives.

	11-05-2005 08:28									#13
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It has a long history and tradition in American democracy. So did counting Blacks as 3/5 of a person at one point in American History, as was allowing States to segregate the racists.

Not everything that a history or a tradition is a good thing, particularly when the history involves being uphold segregation in this country. It's an extremely undemocratic mechanism that should be done away with.

	11-05-2005 08:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Exactly my point.

This could be considered a bipartisan action the same way something could be considered bipartisan if Zell Miller supported it, or how an anti-filibuster rally could be considered bipartisan if a bunch of Missisipi Democrats who voted for Bush supported it. Of course even in New Jersey, you got Republicans protesting the flibuster.

	11-05-2005 08:32									#15
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quote: "These pants are pretty scary, guys. Just like Frist."

That's great

	11-05-2005 08:33									#16
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It's an undemocratic mechanism that prevents the majority from riding roughshod over the minority. Simply because it has been used badly doesn't mean we should junk it. Voters decided to keep slavery, does that mean we should outlaw voting?

It is something which has allowed the Senate to become a far more polite house than the House.

I'll fight any attempt, by any party to end it.

	11-05-2005 08:36									#17
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"It's an undemocratic mechanism that prevents the majority from riding roughshod over the minority. Simply because it has been used badly doesn't mean we should junk it. Voters decided to keep slavery, does that mean we should outlaw voting?"

Voting is something essential to a democracy. A filibuster is not only unessential to a democracy, it is actually an impediment. It's not right that a minority party has the right to veto anything it wants to merely by having 41 votes in the Senate.

	11-05-2005 08:38									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi You know, if the Dems would be upfront about this and say that want to keep the filibuster so they can stop pro-life justices from getting in, that would be one thing.

Considering most of the rest of the judges approved have been anti-Choice, I don't see how this is relevent. Have you seen the records of the people they are blocking? They are as far out of touch with reailty as Ned pretends to be. The Justice from Texas actually said that the Texas legislature didn't mean for a law to say what it clearly said and ruled completely the opposite of the law's intent. They shouldn't be state judges, let alone Federal judges, where they can do some real damage. These people are scary.

	11-05-2005 08:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Bipartisan my butt. If the Democrats were in power and they were going to kill the filibuster to get in "pro-civil rights, pro-gender equality pro-environment" judges that the GOP was blocking, you can bet there would be no such thing happening.

So tell me, if this is solely a Democratic effort, why is public opinion so heavily on the side of the Democrats? Is is media bias? Do tell.

	11-05-2005 09:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "It's an undemocratic mechanism that prevents the majority from riding roughshod over the minority. Simply because it has been used badly doesn't mean we should junk it. Voters decided to keep slavery, does that mean we should outlaw voting?" Voting is something essential to a democracy. A filibuster is not only unessential to a democracy, it is actually an impediment. It's not right that a minority party has the right to veto anything it wants to merely by having 41 votes in the Senate.

A filibuster is essential to the traditions and workings of the Senate. It prevents rule of the mob. If you had forgotten, the founders purposely did not want a democracy.

	11-05-2005 09:03									#21
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Tyranny of the majority can be just as bad as tyranny of a minority.

	11-05-2005 09:14									#22
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Furthermore, color me unimpressed by 'this is more democratic' arguments. The Senate is an undemocratic body! And I'm not complaining, I actually want to make it more undemocratic (elect direct from state legislatures)!

	11-05-2005 09:15									#23
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Why do you think that elections directly from state legislators would be a good idea?

	11-05-2005 09:18									#24
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Because it would focus Senators more on state interests, for one, and secondly it would make state legislatures more important and people may actually take them seriously. Furthermore, I believe the second branch should be more of a Republic type body, while the House is the more Democracy type body (I wouldn't have much objection to having the House go to Proportion Representation for instance, as long as it keeps its role as 1/2 of the legislature).

	11-05-2005 09:20									#25
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interesting . . . . . . . .

	11-05-2005 09:28									#26
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You seem to be forgetting that North East Republicans are not neccesarily the same as the money hungry, corporation prostitizing regressive whores that the republican party represents in the rest of the coutnry.

The govenor of New York is a republican and has had... what term is he up to, 5, 6? I'm ravenously anti republican and I love him.... to Pataki.

Is it possibly, just MAYBE possible that they are telling the truth about the motives for their demonstration, or are you too cynical to yield that?

	11-05-2005 09:35									#27
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"A filibuster is essential to the traditions and workings of the Senate. "

Something being traditional doesn't neccesarily mean it would be right. Especially when the major historical role of the tradition is support racism.

"It prevents rule of the mob. If you had forgotten, the founders purposely did not want a democracy."

Rule of the mob!? Rule of the mob is prevented by the fact that we have representative democracy, that Senators are elected for 6 years, that any piece of legislation must be passed by two houses and approved by the president(Or approved by 2/3 of both houses). It's protected by the fact that we have a Constitution that limits what the majority can do and prevents it from opressing minorirites.

But the filibuster is not part of that constitution, because allowing a minority of 41 to excercize a veto is going way way too far in allowing the representatives that the people elected from passing laws.

"Tyranny of the majority can be just as bad as tyranny of a minority."

If you don't like what the majority is doing, then throw them out in the next election.

---

Anyway, let me ask you guys who are so supportive of the filibuster the point I made earlier. Say it is 1964 and LBJ is trying to pass the Civil Rights Act. Southern support behind the filibuster of it remains solid in spite of fervent lobbying from LBJ, and a number of Western Senators support the Filibuster as well as they had done before on Civil Rights Bills because they feared if the Filibuster was allowed to be broken, they might get run over and not have the Filibuster open to them when they want to use. Opponents of the Civil Rights bill has managed. Using some parliamentary procedure, supporters of the Civil Rights Bill produce a way by which the filibuster could be abolished.

In this case, would you still support the filibuster, even if it's continued existence would mean the continuation of Jim Crow?

	11-05-2005 09:37									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "Tyranny of the majority can be just as bad as tyranny of a minority." If you don't like what the majority is doing, then throw them out in the next election.

So then in the meantime, we're suppose to happily submit to whatever unfair, unjust legislation the tyrannical majority passes and suffer during that time?

	11-05-2005 09:38									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Because it would focus Senators more on state interests, for one, and secondly it would make state legislatures more important and people may actually take them seriously. Furthermore, I believe the second branch should be more of a Republic type body, while the House is the more Democracy type body (I wouldn't have much objection to having the House go to Proportion Representation for instance, as long as it keeps its role as 1/2 of the legislature).

Intersetingly enough, the whole notion of State elected vs. people elected has gotten turned around. Because of gerrymandering, States have a huge say in determining the makeup of the Congressional delegation, whereas Senators have no such obstacle.

	11-05-2005 09:43									#30
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Say the situations ar eme erversed, wo9uld you support JIm Crolw?

The filibuster supldrsts the parliamnatary minory. ino this case it's the democrats. bnow. reason it does is tha republican styates are over-represented int the senate. that[s whjuy. so quiit y9ur4 b itichitgn. it's ****iung pathetic. in shte Sneate, the majoritgy6 someteimes intrinsically loses/ th'at's wqhy the Disstircict foi Columbia aint' reprkesented int the Senawte. So.. Quite your bitichin.. it's your fault. y9our hate civil rights. you hate civilvl libert8ies. it's your fault. **** you.