11-05-2005 10:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I'm not getting pwned at all.

If saying that helps you sleep at night, go ahead. You been PWNED, though.

	11-05-2005 10:15									#32
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dude, that is awesome








EDIT: but x-posting sucks

	11-05-2005 10:16									#33
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quote: Not everyone's heard of them -- in fact, most people haven't. Even coworkers I work with didn't know they existed.

Morons at IBM. Who'd a thunk it?

quote: Someone on Poly the other day was amazed that such a device existed, as well.

Since some Apolytoners have trouble believing that men have walked on the moon, I find that easy to believe.

quote: I've said this before and I'll say it again for emphasis: tablet PCs do for diagramming and note taking what word processors did for writing.

You've pulled it out your ass on numerous occasions. What is it with you? You seem to think that endlessly repeating the point in dispute somehow makes you right.

Tablet PCs are a niche market. They look cool and they are a cool idea, but they haven't taken off yet for the simple reason that most people can find no compelling reason to buy one. They are definitely popular among science lecturers, but they need to add value to appeal to other people. You can blame it on marketing all you like, but I think you put too much emphasis on marketing anyway.

Among students a lot more people use Palm Pilots and the like (in fact that is a real growth market), simply because they are cheaper and ultraportable. If I was going to design something for people to take notes with, I certainly wouldn't do the whole PC thing. I'd have something the size of a Palm Pilot with wireless and basic note taking and communication features. It would be a **** of a lot cheaper for a start.

I can't see any reason for Apple to make a Tablet PC unless they have something new to offer. I can't imagine what that would be, so this might well be another Cube. I certainly have no reason to buy one and nor do most people I know. But who knows what features it will have or whether it will actually see the light of day? Apple had things like this back in the early to mid nineties and nothing came of it.

	11-05-2005 10:17									#34
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quote: If saying that helps you sleep at night, go ahead. You been PWNED, though.

Whatever. I guess you can talk your fair share of **** too.

	11-05-2005 10:20									#35
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quote: Here's a good blog entry on the usefulness of TablePC + OneNote:

Did I claim it was useless for everyone? No. Did I say that most people find them unnecessary? Yes.

End of story.

And that person is clearly illiterate.

	11-05-2005 10:21									#36
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I'm beginning to think that you see anyone who disagrees with you on anything, is "illiterate" -- you use that retort one too many times.

	11-05-2005 10:27									#37
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Agathon, you keep responding by saying TabletPCs are currently a niche market.

You know what else was a niche market? MP3 Players when I got my first in 1999. 6 years ago.

Is it still a niche market?

	11-05-2005 10:29									#38
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun dude, that is awesome

Indeed... only a fool would think otherwise.

	11-05-2005 10:34									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Indeed... only a fool would think otherwise.

Or someone in a reality distortion field of some sort.

	11-05-2005 10:35									#40
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Also, in response to his "Palm Pilot" concerns. Some people may like a regular laptop-ish set up when, say, typing up papers or playing games. The Tablet part would come up when taking notes or making diagrams.

	11-05-2005 10:41									#41
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The most popular tablet PC design is very much a standard laptop. The screen can just flip up and twist down on top of the keyboard.

Nifty animation here: http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/toshibatabletpc.to

	11-05-2005 10:44									#42
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Couldn't that be done with a laptop with a mousepad/USB mouse and some proper software?

	11-05-2005 10:45									#43
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Ugh. No.

Have you ever tried?

	11-05-2005 13:07									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Hey, now we know that Asher writes like a 3 year old. Tablet technology lets us know this.

Considering the only use for tablet PCs you have come up with in the entire thread is for drawing genitalia, I wouldn't be questioning the maturity of others. But thats just me.

	11-05-2005 14:23									#45
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Does everyone who uses a tablet PC write that badly? Or is it just really difficult to write neatly on a tablet PC?

	11-05-2005 14:33									#46
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They are (male) computer nerds. The only ones with worse handwriting are doctors .

	11-05-2005 15:47									#47
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None of you has still solved the basic problem. Tablet PCs have been around for years now, and they have still failed to penetrate the market despite loads of advertising (I've seen plenty) and even a really cool product placement in Collateral. A few people – science lecturers and engineers use them, but no-one else gives a toss. They've been out for years now and have failed to expand beyond a limited user base.

There's an obvious reason – most people don't want to spend a fortune on added functionality that they don't really need. The makers of Tablet PCs would do well to offer something that wasn't just a glorified legal pad, and so would Apple if they have decided to join this losing club.

quote: Also, in response to his "Palm Pilot" concerns. Some people may like a regular laptop-ish set up when, say, typing up papers or playing games.

Why not buy a laptop with your Palm Pilot then? Plenty of folk have both. Why lug a laptop to a lecture when you can just take a PP that fits in your pocket?

I'm just reporting what I see around campus. The PP at lectures thing has taken off in the last couple of years,

	11-05-2005 19:35									#48
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quote: None of you has still solved the basic problem. Tablet PCs have been around for years now, and they have still failed to penetrate the market despite loads of advertising (I've seen plenty)

They've had a considerable price premium until recently. Some of the biggest brands (ie, Dell) don't have a tablet PC out yet. I don't know why you think there has been, but there certainly has not been "loads" of advertising. I've seen one or two print ads in Wired, but that's about it.

And I'm not sure your experience of what students in a philosophy lecture use for notes is really all that useful for a discussion on tablet PCs.

	11-05-2005 20:13									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon That's not the real world. Your job has little to do with the sort of thing most people do for a living.

This coming from a philosphy academe is almost too much to bear

	11-05-2005 20:22									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Not everybody just writes words for a living. Some of us need to diagram and do math, which is hard to do with a keyboard. Most people don't need to. Given the quality of the diagrams I have seen drawn on tablets, I don't hold out much hope. Ten bucks says that the majority of drawings done on tablets today are humorous doodles of women's breasts. But I guess in your neck of the woods people like to do pretty drawings rather than meaningful use of language.

Wait... looking again at your thesis, I'm not sure why you would care about meaningful use fo language.

	11-05-2005 20:25									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I find it puzzling that Apple would make a tablet, since it is such a niche thing.

pure sig material

	11-05-2005 20:48									#52
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In related news, Windows Mobile 5.0 was just announced (aka, Windows Mobile 2005).

http://img.engadget.com/common/images/7930583372648026.jpg?0.862337096153555


Along with it came some new products:

	11-05-2005 20:49									#53
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SMS support.

Attachment: 7930583372648026.jpg
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	11-05-2005 21:31									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I meet with my software engineering group in our lab. We're given the specs from our "customer" for the solution they want. We're then at the point where we need to design a system, componentize it, form teams and assign them appropriately. Guy with the tablet PC opens up OneNote and the group huddles around the screen, and we begin to make some fundamental design decisions. Diagrams are drawn -- we start brainstorming and assigning components into packages, which are then assigned to teams. But we change our minds the more we think about it -- he can just click and drag to rearrange parts of the diagram cleanly at will.

That is an extremely strange way of, uh, "software design."

	11-05-2005 21:36									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Ugh. No.

Uh, yes.

It doesn't matter if you are using data flow, UML, or something else, pieces are bog standard. It's simple to connect them like lego, or Visio if you prefer.

	11-05-2005 21:56									#56
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If tablet PCs are really made for drawing, I expect Apple to do well on that market. Many artsy types prefer Apple (I am under the impression that Apple has the lion's share of the artsy market), and I suppose they have a better knowledge of the needs of the artsies, as well as a better marketing toward them.

	11-05-2005 22:18									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger That is an extremely strange way of, uh, "software design."

Err, no, it's not.

I guess Extreme Programming and the Extreme Programming/Waterfall hybrids are too new for you to understand?

	11-05-2005 22:21									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Uh, yes. It doesn't matter if you are using data flow, UML, or something else, pieces are bog standard. It's simple to connect them like lego, or Visio if you prefer.

As someone who has done many, many, many UML/data flow/program flow diagrams (I'm a software engineering concentration), I know how much of a pain in the ass it is.

It's necessary for formal work, but for quick brainstorming of informal ideas (read: not UML diagrams), it's painfully slow.

I don't know why you and Agathon are even bothering to argue this. It's easier to draw informal diagrams freehand than it is to use some tools that try to approximate the same thing.

	11-05-2005 22:22									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If tablet PCs are really made for drawing, I expect Apple to do well on that market. Many artsy types prefer Apple (I am under the impression that Apple has the lion's share of the artsy market), and I suppose they have a better knowledge of the needs of the artsies, as well as a better marketing toward them.

They're not made for the artsy people. I would actually say they're aimed more at the science/math/business world than art...needless to say I'm not surprised that Agathon and Urban Ranger don't crasp the usefulness of it -- Agathon being an artsy instructor in academia and Urban Ranger being an IT-monkey. Try doing integrals on a standard PC.

Tablet PCs are not places for you to draw pretty pictures, they're for diagramming and freehand note taking primarily. Agathon is intentionally trying to confuse people by mentioning drawing pictures with them...

	11-05-2005 23:10									#60
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By the way, Dell is launching a 19" widescreen laptop next year... http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000463042992/

I remember when Apple launched the 17" widescreen (till too big IMO), everyone made a big deal about how Apple was first...