15-05-2005 00:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko After thinking everything over I have come to the conclusion that we should apply the following tactic to building SoZ. Rather than aiming at a near constant shield per turn production and starting the wonder when this has been achieved, I think we should start the wonder immediately, on turn 1. It has occurred to me that the very instance of adding workers to KBH will disclose our real intentions. Why would we add workers to KBH if we were not constructing something big? Further consideration of this problem led me to the conclusion that the only pre-build which could be realistically accepted by other teams as genuine build is granary. So, my suggestion is we start granary on turn 1 and build it at a normal pace of 10 shields per turn to maintain the illusion. On turn 6 this granary will be changed to a wonder and our real intentions revealed. KBH will have 50 shields accumulated at that time and 150 shields to go. I will do this calculation in greater detail later today, but it seems that from the moment we reveal the wonder building we will need 9 more turns to complete it. Rob and I talked about this too, but didn't analyse all details because of many possibilities and complicated calculations.

Good thinking

A few thoughts. I really liked the part about "laying low" by *not* adding workers until we switch build to SoZ. I think we can add at least 1 worker during the prebuild phase without raising suspiscion though. On the other hand, that worker is probably better off improving terrain around KBH in preparations for joining the city.

We can probably extend the prebuild period by two turn by switching to library when we have 50 shields in the box. While building a library surely looks suspicious, the odds of someone actually seeing it is fairly low.

	15-05-2005 00:50									#32
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Good thinking A few thoughts. I really liked the part about "laying low" by *not* adding workers until we switch build to SoZ. I think we can add at least 1 worker during the prebuild phase without raising suspiscion though. On the other hand, that worker is probably better off improving terrain around KBH in preparations for joining the city. We can probably extend the prebuild period by two turn by switching to library when we have 50 shields in the box. While building a library surely looks suspicious, the odds of someone actually seeing it is fairly low.

so why are we worried if no one else can build it?


Sage of the Horde

	15-05-2005 07:18									#33
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In civ, like in chess, it is more important to frustrate your opponents' chances of any sort of counter-play than to realise your own potentials. If we have come up with this analysis, so have the other teams. So, we must try to minimise the chances of them building this wonder. Regardless of how small these chances may be, we must do everything in our power to make them even smaller.


Or to summarise all stated above in one short sentence: Better safe than sorry!

Last edited by Ljube on 15-05-2005 at 07:23

	15-05-2005 07:19									#34
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fair enough

	15-05-2005 23:46									#35
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Here is the final version of the SoZ building plan.


For the purpose of building Statue of Zeus we change the way we measure time. We consider turn 1990 BC as Turn 1 of our wonder building.

Turn 2 (this turn): KBH has 9 shields. Change production in KBH to granary. Change production in FA to worker. Change production in Bokhara to worker. Change production in Bloodview to settler. Bob and Harry move 2-3. George moves 4. Citizens of KBH rearranged so KBH produces 10 shields per turn with one food surplus.

Turn 3: KBH has 19 shields. Worker built in FA (named FA worker). FA worker moves 8-8-8. Bob and Harry move 6-6. George moves 4-1-4. Two slave workers start road on grass 3 from KBH.

Turn 4: KBH has 29 shields. FA worker builds mine. Bob and Harry move 6. George moves 9. Mildred moves 4-8-8.

Turn 5: KBH has 39 shields. Bokhara builds worker (named Bokhara worker). Bokhara worker moves 9-9-9. Mildred starts road. Road is completed instantly and slave workers are free to move. Slave workers start mine. Bob, Harry and George start mine. Mine is completed at the end of turn 5. Citizens of KBH are rearranged so KBH produces 11 shields per turn with one food surplus.

Turn 6: KBH has 50 shields. Bokhara worker, FA worker, George and Harry move 7 and are added to KBH. Slave workers move 7 and are returned to AM. KBH is size 9 and produces 16 shields per turn with no surplus of food. Production in KBH changed to library to try to maintain the illusion for at least one more turn. Bob and Mildred move 7-7-7.

Turn 7: KBH has 66 shields. Production in KBH changed to Statue of Zeus. Bob and Mildred mine grass 7-7 from KBH.

Turn 8: KBH has 82 shields.

Turn 9: KBH has 98 shields. Mine completed on grass 7-7 from KBH at the end of turn 9. KBH now produces 17 shields per turn.

Turn 10: KBH has 115 shields.

Turn 11: KBH has 132 shields.

Turn 12: KBH has 149 shields.

Turn 13: KBH has 166 shields.

Turn 14: KBH has 183 shields.

Turn 15: Statue of Zeus completed in KBH.

	16-05-2005 00:54									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll so why are we worried if no one else can build it? Sage of the Horde

Everyone got ivory, which means everyone can build it, that's why we have to hurry.

The "confuse the hell out of everyone" part can be considered psycological warfare

	16-05-2005 04:53									#37
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Let it be known throughout the lands....

The Horde has begun its first National Wonder Program - Statue of Stone.

The Horde is under Red Guard operational security

Their is to be NO, I repeat NO talk of this project anywhere out side of The Horde Private Forum, and such comms between Horde members.

Let the building and shield storing begin.

	16-05-2005 04:58									#38
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What he stated goes for all Horde Business

The Horde has a plan and a plan has many steps and a step has much effort for each one and each one is as important as the one before so please gather unto us what is ours!


Horde forever

	17-05-2005 14:00									#39
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indeed, well turn 3 completed now

12 to go

	18-05-2005 00:33									#40
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Blue Sky Mining

	18-05-2005 01:57									#41
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Do we have math yet btw?

	18-05-2005 02:28									#42
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yes we have math, just not from Babylon as per agreement.

	19-05-2005 05:28									#43
	Slightly modified SoZ building plan Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The Horde has begun its first National Wonder Program - Statue of Stone.

For the purpose of building Statue of Zeus we change the way we measure time. We consider turn 1990 BC as Turn 1 of our wonder building.

Turn 2: KBH has 9 shields. Change production in KBH to granary. Change production in FA to worker. Change production in Bokhara to worker. Change production in Bloodview to settler. Bob and Harry move 2-3. George moves 4. Citizens of KBH rearranged so KBH produces 10 shields per turn with one food surplus.

This Turn:
Turn 3: KBH has 19 shields. Worker built in FA (named FA worker). FA worker moves 8-8-8. Bob and Harry move 6-6. George moves 4-1-4. Two slave workers start road on grass 3 from KBH.

Turn 4 (this turn): KBH has 29 shields. Change production in Bokhara to spearman. FA worker builds road. Road is completed instantly. Both slave workers and FA worker cannot move. Bob and Harry move 6 and start mine. George moves 8 and starts mine. Mildred moves 4-8-8. Citizens of KBH rearranged so KBH produces 11 shields per turn with no food surplus.

Turn 5: KBH has 40 shields. Mildred starts mine. FA Worker starts mine. Both slave workers start mine. Mine is completed instantly and Bob, Harry and George are free to move. Bob moves 7-7-7. Citizens of KBH are rearranged so KBH produces 12 shields per turn with no food surplus.

Turn 6: KBH has 52 shields. FA worker, George, Harry and Mildred move 7 and are added to KBH. Slave workers move 7 and are returned to AM. KBH is size 9 and produces 16 shields per turn with no surplus of food. Production in KBH changed to library to try to maintain the illusion for at least one more turn. Bob starts mine.

Turn 7: KBH has 68 shields. Production in KBH changed to Statue of Zeus.

Turn 8: KBH has 84 shields.

Turn 9: KBH has 100 shields.

Turn 10: KBH has 116 shields.

Turn 11: KBH has 132 shields. Mine completed on grass 7-7 from KBH at the end of turn 11. KBH now produces 17 shields per turn.

Turn 12: KBH has 149 shields.

Turn 13: KBH has 166 shields.

Turn 14: KBH has 183 shields.

Turn 15: Statue of Zeus completed in KBH.

	28-05-2005 15:12									#44
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not many turns to go and no other team has started on a wonder. has there been any word if they know what we are doing?

	28-05-2005 16:56									#45
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no word to me or Ljube, we are just discussing the very issue

	01-06-2005 13:23									#46
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Ormuzd is the only curious one I see. Score one for Horde Security

	03-06-2005 13:35									#47
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SoZ in 4 turns! General Bongo, soon you will have many horsemen of apocalypse to command!

	03-06-2005 21:56									#48
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"I am Bongo, General of the Horde, Mortals tremble in my presence"

	09-06-2005 11:38									#49
	Statue of Zeus Completed Tired of ads?

The Crowd gathers in the Grand Statue of Zeus Plaza

Drums begin to pound.... the sound picks up...
more drums join in.... the sound picks up...
then from behind you more drums join in.... the sound picks up...
this continues for a few minutes, then..
to both the left and the right of the Grand Statue of Zeus Plaza more drums join in.... the sound picks up...

soon no one can speak from the noise of the drums

their pace picks up.....

and silence.... it is almost deafening!

* Lord Soothsayer Plato of the Blood Oath Horde calls the plaza to order, after the drums, there is no talk, and all canhear him

Lords, Ladies, Honoured Guests and Visiting Dignitaries,

It is with great pleasure that we invite you all here to our city of the "Khan's Blood Hall" to celebrate the Grand Opening of this Great Wonder of the World.

Many a year of work and preperation has gone into the very wonder that stands before you.

May your hearts be lifted in the ways of the Horde.

Here be thy Khan

* Khan Paddy steps up

Welcome One and All.

You have all been very patient and understanding. For that I give you my praise and thanks.

I give you the Statue of Zeus.

It is time for a Horde Party!!!

You have all played hard, now go party hard

Blood Oath Mates

* near 350 000 people of the Horde, yes almost the entire city of "Khan's Blood Hall" and many from neighbouring cities went on to celebrate well into the week, as is only the way in the Horde...

The public celebrations are here

Attachment: soz.jpg
This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	23-06-2005 18:35									#50
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Following this great success, I came to the idea we could support another wonder. If we add 3 workers to Khan's Blood Hall and increase it to size 11 with 20 shields per turn, it will be capable of building a big wonder in 20 turns. Pyramids or Great Library in 20 become a good option. Hanging Gardens which will help solve our happiness problems can be finished in 15 turns. Temple of Artemis would require 25 turns but would increase our culture and territory dramatically.

I was thinking to start another thread about this, but let's have a first round of discussion here.


My preference is the Pyramids. The wonder would solve our growth problems.

	24-06-2005 02:10									#51
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another wonder would be great

I have changed the name of this thread by the way so chat away

	24-06-2005 05:25									#52
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I would support Hanging Gardens. We are spending much keeping the people happy. Pyramids would be okay, but would come after the current round of settlers we are discussing and I am not sure of the utility of this. Great Library would not reap its full benefit with us in the tech lead anyway. Temple of Artemis would be okay...until it becomes obsolete.

If we are to do this, then I say Hanging Gardens.

	24-06-2005 08:12									#53
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Temple of Artemis would be okay...until it becomes obsolete.

It will never become obsolete. I wouldn't recommend it otherwise. If we choose to build Temple of Artemis, we will never research education (and I don't really see the reason to research it in any case).

	24-06-2005 15:01									#54
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ahhh will the wonders never cease to amaze me

I too like the idea of the Temple... yes I certainly do

	24-06-2005 16:26									#55
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With no expiration, I would like this as well.

	24-06-2005 16:34									#56
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In fact I like the idea too. Horde has for too long been accused of caring not about culture. Time to change that perception of our nation radically.

	26-06-2005 17:16									#57
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hahaha

	26-06-2005 17:34									#58
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Ljube, will we see full details soon

	26-06-2005 17:43									#59
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what would be especially nice for the Horde would be the knights templar !

	26-06-2005 18:23									#60
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Yes! And Leo's, but that wonder is extremely expensive.