11-05-2005 21:21									#1
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My first serious game was with Japan. Japan is pretty good for the newbie, as you're always at peace (unless you initiate a war yourself), and because you learn how to squeeze your uncivilized economy for what it's worth. Even better, you magically become a civilized nation by 1870. Good sandbox game, but not really that interesting. At least, the 35 first years are utterly unexciting for the experienced player.

I then tried to play as China. Unlike Japan, China doesn't civilize magically, but has to earn its civilized status. And unlike Japan, China has mucho resources to do it. However, my first game as China was extremely frustrating, because the English always declare the opium wars. You're basically raped by the English, can do little about it (the English fight much better, and their troops are much faster than yours). In the end, there was also an event that utterly humiliated me. I tried to spend the next century brushing off the humiliation (one needs some prestige to become civilized), to no avail

My second game as China was extremely different. I bought some napoleonic military technology from the Russians (gave up my claims on Khazakstan and Sakhalin in exchange), and I prepared for the Opium war well in advance. My legions of Chinese-with-guns defended successfully against the English, and even made good inroads in British India. However, the Rosbifs would simply not give up, and I ended up bringing back all my troops to defend the territory (the Rosbifs had only access roads, which were heavily defended), and I let the English try and fail to conquer for the next 10 years. They eventually agreed to a white peace.
After that, the road to civilized status was wide open. I earned a little prestige, which was yet enough for me to have the requisites. I was the greatest military power among the uncivilized (having more than one million men mobilized helps ), and I squeezed out enough from my few factories, so that my industrial power could (barely) fulfill the requirements.
Once I beame civilized, it was piece of cake. I had unlimited population to turn into workers. I quickly reached the tech that allowed me to produce my own machine parts, leaving me. My large territory had nearly all the resources I could use.

I finished the game by being the world's economic hyperpower, as I has an economic score of 17,000 (by contrast, the world's second economic power, Russia, had somehing like 1,200 )

	12-05-2005 00:25									#2
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With China, how much military did you build? And when you became civilized, did you have enough money to build lots of RR, or did you have to prioritize? I'd love to get some more details, as I'd like to play China myself, but hasn't dared because of the difficulities(and I'm not good at Vickie at all).

	12-05-2005 01:30									#3
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Well, China is fairly easy once you know what to do: the English will always attack you in 4 provinces, that are easily defensible if numerous Chinese soldiers (if anything, the Chinese are very numerous. Use it to your advantage) are located there: Dali, Guangzhou, Honkong, Weihawei. Be strong enough there, and the English won't hurt you.

Right at the start of the game, trade with Russia for the following techs: flintlock rifles (allows you to build cavalry and infantry), freedom of trade, and printing press (or, if you're playing with the latest beta patch, water-steam engine). Give them your claims on Khazakstan and Sakhalin in exchange. You should have 5 machine parts, that'll allow you to build 5 base factories: ideally, a lvl2 steel fac, a lvl2 lumber fac, and either a cement or fabric fac. With these, you should manage to squeeze enough to get to 50 economic power.

If you claim a colony in Okinawa + neighbouring island (the island south of Tokyo is claimable too), you'll get a significant boost to your prestige. If you pay more than 50% of the defense buudget, your prestige will rise too (4 prestige per year). You'll get to the 100 fairly quickly. Using this method, I civilized in 1854.

When you're civilized, you aren't extremely rich immediately. You still lack machine parts. And your technology sucks. However, you can already begin to turn plenty of Beifrangen and Nanfrangen (your country's official ethnical group) into clerks, to solve this (remember, only the clerks from your country's official ethnicity is going to produce science). Besides, it's easy to pay the max for education.

You also have to expand your farms like crazy, because you have damn too many unemployed. Expanding the farms is extremely cheap, and your income will quickly double or treble.

When you have a steady source of machine parts (you should be able to buy them off the world market by the 1860ies or 1870ies), build all the industry you can. You have a virtually limitless pool of people to work in them, and virtually limitless natural resources.

You can be agressive, but it's not very useful. Save for oil and fruit, you have nothing to gain by conquering other nations (you already have all the resources and manpower you can need). Still, if you're into world conquest, it's very easy once you're a civilized China. You have millions of soldiers which are now actually trained. Make sure to be up-to-date with military technology before declaring war with the top powers however (at the end of the game, defense is very seriosuly overpowered, think WW1 the trench war).

	12-05-2005 02:13									#4
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Do you use VIP?

	12-05-2005 03:07									#5
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I'm still really unclear about how this whole factory thing works. I was playing a game as Peria and two events give me first a bunch of technology for accepting British advisers then civilized stutus in exchange for a bunch of revolts in the backwards parts of my kingdom. I survived that concquor much of central Asia before the Russians did and annexed the parts of Baluchistan in Pakistan (They're a state culture so I wanted them) and I even got enough money to build a couple of factories.

Since I didn't have rail lines I built my factories in states which had all the needed resources and big populations but no one ever came to work at my factories. I had auto assign workers on but no one ever got assigned. I did notice 5 unemployed clerks in Tehren but I couldn't figure out how to assign them as factory workers.

	12-05-2005 04:15									#6
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Migration is fairly complex. In my current game as France (which is VERY different population-wise as China ), I can't get three craftsmen to moce to Paris for work.

I have read a very thorough explanation, in which there may be the reason. Persians don't move far, they're a "short range migration culture". If the province you want them to move to is at the other end of your empire, chances are they won't move there are all.

	12-05-2005 04:17									#7
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Che: I have only started using VIP in my newest game, as France. I'm ambivalent about it: on the one hand, there are many more events and great ideas (in particular, your factory's efficiency rises with commercial inventions ), but the presence of many small countries that slow down your colonization means a huge BadBoy rating for the wannabe colonists. In my attempt to colonize West Africa (by only crushing the savages, I don't move against my civilized neighbours), I have already been attacked once by Germany, and once by the UK

	12-05-2005 08:48									#8
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I've found I can be a brut and conquor places and the AI leaves me alone as long as I have powerful allies. I was worried about the Russians so I had defensive alliances with both the UK and Prussia along with a full alliance with the Ottomans. That kept the Russians from declaring war on me even though my BB was rather high.

	12-05-2005 11:16									#9
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Spiff: If you take all provinces of a pagan nation, you can take the whole country in one war. But don't do that! If you do, you get the BB of all the provinces. However, if you take all provinces except the capital(if you have crushed the country completely, it's posible), you get 0 BB. In the next war, you take the one remaining procince(the capital) and annex the country at the expence of that BB only. Saves you enormous BB.

	12-05-2005 11:41									#10
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But other then Africa who's pagan?

	12-05-2005 15:09									#11
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In VIP I think the NA Indians are independent nations in the latest patch. And, soory, I was dead tired when I wrote the last post, it's not pagan, it's uncivilized, sorry. That means most nations not Western.

	12-05-2005 16:47									#12
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OK, that makes sense.

	14-05-2005 01:42									#13
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BTW, there are quite a few Pagans in Korea (this was the useless factoid of the day)

	14-05-2005 10:14									#14
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I am planning to start a US game and I have a big question. What triggers the south to rebel? If you abolish slavery? When the Repubs win thier first election? Is there a way to keep the Civil War from happening and still abolish slavery?

	14-05-2005 12:24									#15
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I'm not sure I can face the learning curve. What's the easiest starting game?

A lot of people recommend Brazil, but I find that rather dull as the place is one giant ****ing jungle.

	14-05-2005 12:50									#16
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I recommand a dull game to begin with

Seriously, since there isn't a tutorial, it's good to have a peaceful game to understand what the economy is about. Again, I recommand Japan. Pretty boring until you civilize, but you'll get to understand the economy fairly well, and you'll go to war when you decide.

	14-05-2005 14:50									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You should have 5 machine parts, that'll allow you to build 5 base factories: ideally, a lvl2 steel fac, a lvl2 lumber fac, and either a cement or fabric fac. With these, you should manage to squeeze enough to get to 50 economic power.

Problem is, with the latest patch, China has NO machine parts... I have played up to 1860 and still lurk at an economic power of four.

Also the only way to finance the education (which will take almost 400 ducats per day at 100%) is to rise trade tarriffs to maximum. How can you say "it shouldn´t be a problem to pay the education"???

	14-05-2005 22:36									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Micha Also the only way to finance the education (which will take almost 400 ducats per day at 100%) is to rise trade tarriffs to maximum. How can you say "it shouldn´t be a problem to pay the education"???

1. That's once you have civilized that it's not really difficult

2. Your citizens better get acquainted with a 100% tariff, because tariff is the way to go if you wat huge amounts of capital for industrialisation (once MPs are freely available) and military.

	16-05-2005 13:31									#19
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Debt kills.