12-05-2005 05:09									#1
	Agricultural Trait Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Should the Agricultural trait be part of the civilization we will pick for the next game?

	12-05-2005 05:27									#2
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Maybe ...

We should get a civ nomination thread.
Any civ that is nominated, reaches round 2.

Round 2, we post our preferences on all civs nominated.
eg if 8 civs are nominated, 8 votes go to my prefered civ, and 1 vote to my least prefered civ.

At the end of the week, the votes are tallied.
And we will have our top 6 civs. (6 teams, so we need 5 alternates).

	12-05-2005 05:48									#3
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I'd like to know the map settings before launching into this.

	12-05-2005 05:50									#4
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It was on E_T's instructions, so blame him.

	12-05-2005 07:51									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear It was on E_T's instructions, so blame him.

Suggestion, NOT Instruction

quote: Can someone Organize a Poll to atleast See what everyone thinks about having Agriculture as one of the 2 traits that we will be using during the next game.

Sheesh.....

E_T

	12-05-2005 08:01									#6
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Sorry master. I did not realize that you wanted us to pretent that your mighty suggestions were not actually the word of god.

	12-05-2005 08:06									#7
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E_T

	12-05-2005 08:19									#8
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'd like to know the map settings before launching into this.

NYE, what would you suggest, depending on what particular map setting that you can foresee us having to deal with in Game 2?

E_T

	12-05-2005 08:38									#9
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Interesting. What if the teams decide to have a no-holds-barred Pangaea Cage Match? How would that affect our current decision-making process?

Either way, we should probably just select our Top 3 civs and then see what pans out at the UN. We can always re-evaluate if necessary.

	12-05-2005 08:48									#10
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While we are voting on the Agricultural trait, let's go over the benefits again.

1. +1 base food for all cities built on river [Edited by E_T] or Fresh Water Lake [/edit]
2. Extra food for irrigated desert (how much?)
3. Aqueducts and some late-game improvements at half-price.

I have only played a partial game as an Ag civ, so please let me know iam I missing anything. If not, then what happens if we don't have many rivers? All of a sudden, the Ag trait isn't looking so hot. Is this trait really the slam dunk we all think it is?

Let's be absolutely certain before we toss away quite a few decent civ choices with one poll.

	12-05-2005 09:02									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Donovan Zoi While we are voting on the Agricultural trait, let's go over the benefits again. 1. +1 base food for all cities built on river [Edited by E_T] or Fresh Water Lake [/edit] 2. Extra food for irrigated desert (how much?)

+1, which makes an Irrigated Desert Equivilant to an Irrigated Plains Tile. If you have a lot of Desert area, this can be significant for if your NOT Agi, then you have to wait until RailRoads to get the same amount of Food from a Desert (and with RR, you still get that extra +1, so it whould be 3).

quote: 3. Aqueducts and some late-game improvements at half-price.

50 shield Aqua's in the early game, ESPECIALLY if you DON'T have cities next to too many RIvers/Fresh Water, is a great Improvement when you want to get to a Higher Pop and thus a greater Defense & Productivity. That can mean the difference in a lot of things in the early Middle Ages.

quote: I have only played a partial game as an Ag civ, so please let me know iam I missing anything. If not, then what happens if we don't have many rivers? All of a sudden, the Ag trait isn't looking so hot. Is this trait really the slam dunk we all think it is? Let's be absolutely certain before we toss away quite a few decent civ choices with one poll.

We aren't, but we are leaning verymuch so towards the Agriculture Trait as one of our 2 Traits for this next game.

E_T

	12-05-2005 09:23									#12
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I understand, E_T, and I am certainly not here to upset the apple cart. I just want to make sure we leave no stone unturned for our first major decision of the finals.

You've probably noticed by now that I have been championing a certain Aggie civ in the other thread for quite some time now. So if an Agricultural civ wins, you can rest assured that I will stand by our team's decision proudly.

Even if it isn't the Celts.

	12-05-2005 09:34									#13
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No Problem, that is what discussion is for. We have no Apple-Carts", currently, to get upset over, so no harm done....

E_T

	12-05-2005 10:07									#14
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The problem is with 'decision making' at a premature point.

These 'preliminary polls' tend to take on a life of their own.

Discussions are great, but let's make our decisions about horses prior to our choices of carts.

	12-05-2005 10:47									#15
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I agree with NYE; let's not have any decision polls until closer to the date for our final decision.

That said, I'm having trouble imagining a map we wouldn't want Ag for, except perhaps an Arid & Cold.

	12-05-2005 19:03									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

One minor addition to Agr,

upon leaving despotism, ALL cities get the extra food.

So the complete list of advantages are:

1. Cities founded on rivers and fresh water lakes get +1 food starting at the begining of the game.

2. Cities not founded on rivers and fresh water lakes get half priced aquaducts and will get the food bonus upon changing to a higher govt.

3. Desert that's irrigated gets 2 food, not just 1. [Equiavlent to plains.] This makes desert very productive for agr civs. And in a mixed desert / plains enviorment with a food surplus, mine the plains first.

4. I think it's Recyling Plants and Solar Plants that are half priced for Agr Civs. But those are modern era techs, and in my own games I've always built Hoovers.